misterp

OK, I'm too nice. You can be my attorney.

Let me assure you I've become the master at washing your vehicle without scratching it Let me tell you nerve-racking - THREE times a day UPS drives through here, and they do so at 15-20 mph and raise a choking monster-sized cloud of dust which settles all over the SS. So the truck is CONSTANTLY dirty. I've thought about calling UPS and lodging a complaint, but then I realized it won't help because the other 15 people that work here don't give a rat's ass about anybody's property either and they also drive in and out of here like a bat outta hell and crop-dust the SS another 30 times a day F'n inconsiderate people, at least I drive 8-mph so as to not stir-up a huge cloud of dust... I was parking on the back-side of the property as to escape the dirt and was visited by the president of the company (oh sorry he now calls himself 'executive director' ) and told that I *must* park in the front lot with everyone else, that I did not warrant special treatment. I lost my temper and shot back that having a dirt parking lot in front of a $75M business shows the rest of the world how 'low rent' he really is, and that any of his professional peers in a business of this size would have found a way to budget-in paving the front parking lot. GRRRRRRRR now you've made me mad

Yeah I've already made up my mind that you will be buying me my next beater! I wish I had the $$$ back when you got that black SS... Mr. P.

Nope; truck might be a dirty pig on the outside but it's clean as a whistle underhood. Oh I've wanted e-fans really bad, but for other reasons - might get to that later this year. I've got the Tru Cool Max, it covers quite a bit of area but I left a 2" gap between the back of the tranny cooler and the front of the A/C condenser: I just picked-up the truck; the service writer told me that they have a A/C hose on order and to bring the truck in next week and they will evacuate the system, replace the hose, and refill it - at that time they will know if it is low or not He said that it was too cool today (it's only 70 outside) to run the A/C and check for proper fan operation & pressure drop across the condensor Mr. P.

Huh... so that turbo is a draw-through, not a blow-through? Interesting. And that whipped-out Civic is like totally blingin', yo! Mr. P.

As clean as your truck is I would not bother with involving insurance - what I would do is: 1) take a lot of pictures, document the whole incident as best as you can; include pics of Expedition license and VIN, too 2) get information from owner, make contact with owner 3) admit to owner that there is past damage on the bumper, and you are willing to go in 1/2 with him since the entire bumper will have to be repainted, explain to him that this means it will cost him $150-200 (as well as yourself); 4) if you get no compliance from offending driver, take him to small claims court for the $175 (half bumper repair), I am certain that a judge will award it to you Mr. P.

I just got a call from the dealer on the SS, they suspect that the A/C condenser is not cooling enough while city driving; has anyone else had a change in A/C performance after installing/upgrading their tranny cooler? Mr. P.

Yes, check out the Ground Force kit; there's someone on the forum here with several GF kits for sale, I can't remember who at the moment but check the For Sale forum... Mr. P.

I added drop keys because I was unhappy with the stance using the spindles alone; on the spindles by themselves I also adjusted a lot of preload out of the torsion bars to get the front of the truck *down*, to the point where the ride was a bit spongier. At the recommendation of a shop in Dallas I added the keys and cranked the preload UP (so the keys only deliver a front .5-inch drop, not 1-inch) and the ride is improved IMO, but it's too soon to give you true ride/vibration/harshness impressions because I have not driven it at highway speeds yet. Mr. P.

Yeah yeah yeah, it rained here a couple days ago... add that to the fact I have to drive a dirt road every day and that's what you get Yeah I'm undecided on what to do about the front. I want something a bit more subtle than an in-your-face billet grille, also I think they are really over-played. but I don't want to go all Darth Vader either. I like the wire mesh gilles (like the CTS-V) but maybe if the pattern was 1/2 or 3/4-inch and black chrome? I dropped it off at the dealer this morning for A/C service, parked next to a black C5 vette; the front fenderwell gap on the truck is about 3/8-inch larger than the Vette... But I've now got better brakes! Mr. P.

OK, here is the project so far: * McGaughy's spindles * McGaughy's rear leaf hangers and shackles * McGaughy's torsion bar keys * Pirelli 295/45-20 tires (2.5" shorter than stock) * BAER Alumasports + Earls lines + ATE Super Total drop in front is 2.5"; total drop in rear is 2.75" (I used the lower hole in the rear leaf spring hangers, not the upper one). What do you guys think, should I leave it like it is (I like the rake) or should I go ahead and drop the truck (front and rear) another .75-inch? Mr. P.

Installing aftermarket torsion bar keys will make a dramatic effect in the stance of your truck. There are a few different companies offering lowering keys for about $95/pair. Installation is very easy to do, even first-time mechanics will have no problem doing this provided the correct tools are on-hand; seasoned pro's can perform this procedure as shown in as little as 20-minutes. Tools required - * Jack and jackstands; * 18mm socket & ratchet; * Torsion bar clamp tool (preferred), or 7-ton gear puller; * Possibly a hammer and punch (but usually not). A torsion bar clamp tool can be rented (or even borrowed) from a local tool rental company or auto parts store. For this project I went to a local O'Reiley's Auto Parts store and they let me borrow a KD Tools 7-ton puller overnight at no charge (I did have to leave a $100 deposit though ). SAFETY FIRST - this procedure does involve unloading and reloading great force into the front torsion springs of your vehicle; the step-by-step illustrated here is very safe however it still must be said that you must respect a loaded torsion bar and STAY OUT OF HARM'S WAY, never put your fingers anywhere around a loaded torsion bar key - if the hardware, clamp tool, or puller tool happens to fail at a moment where your hand is positioned inside the frame crossmember you will loose one or more fingers. Mr. P.

Ordered mine from Street Beat Customs; the total was $425, and the kit was actually drop-shipped from McGaughy's. Also, installation is *very* similar for 2WD SS's as I am told they also have the torsion bar front-end; just omit the steps where you have to deal with the front hubs. Mr. P.

Hi Darren, I am excited that you joined and chimed-in. Jeff had just passed away when I bought my own SS and joined the forum, I was a pretty raw newbie at the time. It is very rare to find an individual that both knows his dream and also does what it takes to make it happen, I am sorry that I missed the opportunity to actually spend time with Jeff and share his excitement for the truck. The fact that you finished his dream for him is a true testiment to your love, that is rare. If you ever display the truck again I would enjoy meeting with you, both to learn more about him and enjoy his finished dream. Mr. P.

I dredged through all the lowering-related threads, and here are some technical high points from 2-3 years of talk on the subject: FRONT: * changing the front suspension more than 1-inch up or down will create HUGE changes in suspension camber, the truck will "walk like a bull dog" until it is aligned so remember to budget for a good alignment as part of the project; * Spindles are preferred over keys or nothing at all, nobody has ever posted that they wished they used torsion bar keys instead of spindles, nor has anyone said they regretted using spindles; * correctly installed/adjusted spindle kits have a small improvement in handling by significantly lowering the truck's center of gravity, the torsion key swaps retain near-stock body roll, and torsion bar jobs have shown significant increases in body roll (due to loss of suspension travel) with several saying they seriously feared driving their freshly lowered truck; * Early McGaughys (pronounced MA-goys) spindles caused an increase in turning radius - this design oversight was corrected in later spindles, and Belltech spindles never had this problem; * Front lowering spindles will only fit a 17-inch or larger rim, and as the spare is a 16-inch rim this means that you cannot use the spare on the front any more however you can put the OEM spare on the rear and move a good rear tire up to the front; * Torsion key swaps will require that you relieve spring pressure by using a special tool or 7-ton puller to uncompress/re-compress the torsion bars (rent from auto parts store), several have tried using hardware store c-clamps and the clamps failed (busted) in the process; * a few enthusiasts who bought the torsion key kits (not all) changed over to, or later added, dropped spindles and reported that doing so finally made their efforts worthwhile; * Lowering the suspension by cranking down on the torsion bars to excess has in cases caused loss of suspension travel, spongier ride, alignment issues, and darting under braking; * many that cranked down their torsion bars (rather than use keys or spindles) later either regreted it, changed it, or admited that they were living with a compromise in handling but appreciated its cheap cost; * Dropping the front of the AWD SS more than 2-inches (by any method) risks causing CV-joint binding and hence front-end vibration which is felt under acceleration at specific vehicle speeds in the steering column and firewall, and will momentarily disappear as you travel over a bump in the highway - it was discovered that this is corrected by cranking the torsion bars back up a quarter-turn at a time until the binding/vibration is relieved; * vibration can also come from the truck riding on the bumpstops, and Mike McGaughy recommends improving ride quality by cutting 1/3rd off the factory bumpstop (one 'nub') - there are also shorter aftermarket bumpstops on the market (stylinconcepts) but they are harder than the OEM rubber ones; * Spindle kits allow you to retain stock-length shocks, torsion key kits and adjusted torsion bar jobs will benefit from correspondingly shorter shocks as there is less suspension travel (the Ground Force and Belltech units come well recommended), but are not absolutely required as the suspension will bottom-out before the shock does; * There have been fit-up problems with the McGaughy's spindles on '05+ trucks, as the OEM ball joint design was changed with introduction of larger OEM rotors; this requires an advanced installation workaround. REAR: * Installing aftermarket leaf spring hangers (secures front of the leaf to the frame) is an absolute biatch of a task as the OEM hangers are riveted and must be ground/torched/drilled out - you'll cry tears of pain in the process and tears of joy when it's done; * If installing leaf spring front hangers you must remove the fuel tank for access, prepare beforehand by running the truck almost out of fuel as each gallon weighs 6.1 lbs; * the best way to get the spring hanger rivets out is with a cutting torch, a skilled hand will have both hangers off in 15-minutes flat - the second way is to grind the heads of the rivets off with a 4.5" grinder (or air chisel) and pound them out with a 5/16" drift punch and 3 or 5-lb sledge hammer, this will take several hours; IF AT ALL POSSIBLE get a torch! * I discovered it is easiest to remove the spring hangers if you cut/grind the outside head of the rivets, not the head on the inside of the frame rail (trust me on this, after grinding on the inside heads you will still not be able to hammer them out with a punch, grind/cut/torch the outside ones) * step-by-step: first cut/grind down all six outside rivets (and don't worry about digging into the bracket), second use a 5/16" drift punch to punch out the bottom two rivets, third use a 3 or 5-lb sledge and *bash* the hanger off from the inboard side (3 or 4 solid hits on the bottom-inside edge of the hanger will have it free); after removing the hanger, it is an easy job to pound the rivet stubs inward through the frame rail until they're flush and then a final few hits with the drift punch will clear the holes; * though not required a few have pulled the truck bed to make the job easier (8 bolts, a couple extra friends, 20-mins); * On heavily lowered trucks with the large aluminum driveshafts (SS) it is highly recommended that the mid-bed frame crossmember be cut-out the as it adds no support to the frame (it's not much thicker than exhaust tubing) and will strike/damage the driveshaft if the truck *totally* bottoms-out; * When using the recommended combination of front hangers and rear shackles it is still important that the installer uses the correct bracket configuration to maintain the critical pinion angle - this is a mistake a lot of McGaughys installers make and according to Mike McGaughy to set the correct pinion angle (assuming his 2"/3.5" drop kit) the leaf spring is to be attached to the front hanger using the 2-inch (lower) hole, and to the rear shackle using the 1-inch (lower) hole; * using only rear leaf-spring shackles (without front hangers) will certainly alter pinion angle and introduce vibration that can be felt in the seat and/or floorboard, several have reported that this is corrected with installation of either a 2, 3, or 4-degree shim - the thick part of the shim is oriented to the rear of the spring; * vibration can also come from the truck riding on the rear bumpstops, an improvement in ride quality can be gained by removing the mounting bracket from the rear bumpstops and remounting the bumpstops to the frame (an OEM mounting hole is already present for this), also Mike McGaughy has said that the rear bumpstop length can be cut down as short as 1/2-inch if desired; * The McGaughy's deluxe kit (comes with both hangers and shackles) maintains stock-length shocks; * Hard-core tech - according to Ground Force engineers, the OEM Silverado SS pinion angle is 3.8, driveline angle is 2.8, and trans angle is 5.7; * If the truck is fitted with a rear sway bar, the links ("dog bones") will need to be shortened/modified so that the bar is level again in its resting/neutral position; * towing with a lowered truck can get bumpy (as you are bottomed-out on the bumpstops) but does not present any problems, several have installed either an overload/helper spring (low-tech) or the Firestone rear airbag kit (high-tech) with great success - owners of the Firestone kits rave about them; * it may still be necessary to have the driveline (U-joint) angles double-checked and corrected by an experienced driveline, 4x4 off-road, or chassis fab shop to eliminate driveline vibration, this could require shimming or shaving of engine mounts, transmission mount, or axle mounts to restore correct drivetrain geometry. COSTS (GIVE OR TAKE): * Several have reported real aerodynamic gains after lowering - both increased fuel economy (1-2 mpg) and top speeds; * Complete drop kits featuring front spindles cost between $400 and $450, and require a moderate-to-professional degree of automotive skill (or talent) to install - these are not newbie friendly kits and will take 6-12 hours to completely install; professional shops typically charge $300-400 to install a complete lowering package, not including price of the kit, so if you elect to do this the final expense could be anywhere from $750 to $950; * For those contemplating a front spindle kit DIY, rice750sxi was nice enough to document his McGaughy's front spindle install here; * Complete torsion key kits cost anywhere between $265 and $385 (depending on whether they come with new shocks or not); the torsion key kits can be installed in a half-to-full day by most automotive novices right in the driveway with the help of jackstands, a rented key compressor, and a couple favorite beverages - since these kits cost less plus do not require professional labor they can be a decent bang-for-the-buck option; * The low-budget lowering option is to crank on the torsion bar adjustment bolts 6 to 8 turns, install rear spring shackles and shims, hacksaw-off all four suspension bumpstops, and take the truck in for an alignment - total project is between $100 and $150, excluding shorter shocks; don't go more than 1-1/2 inch if you choose to do this. FINDING PROFESSIONAL HELP: * lowering a vehicle is an exact science, there just aren't very many qualified, experienced 'scientists'! * If you are searching for a shop or installer first try major/well-established 4x4 off-road shops - these facilities mainly raise trucks all day everyday for a living so they are *very* comfortable working with aftermarket suspension and very intimate with the details of proper suspension and drivetrain alignment. Do not take the truck to just any local front-end alignment place, you want a shop that customizes suspension all day every day and the 4x4 crowd has already conquered many of the mentioned issues in their own projects; * If you are having trouble finding a competent off-road or suspension shop, get opinions from several driveline balancing shops as they will be able to steer you to those that do have their 'black-belt' in both suspension installation and drivetrain alignment/phasing. TESTING: * I cannot stress enough, test on known good (balanced) tires. The wheels/tires have got to be as perfect as possible for later testing or else you will have a shake but not be able to decide if it is a tire (or multiple tires), or rim, or driveline, or CV joint, or bumpstops, or something else unrelated. Use wheels/tires that you KNOW are in balance so that any shaking discovered can confidently be traced to suspension modifications, not new (out of balance) tires or rims. * I've found the easiest way to reveal vibration is to slowly gain speed at WOT, so imagine pulling the steepest grade you can think of while trying to put a lot of power through the drivelines; because the truck is speeding up slowly you will not blast right past a shaky-spot on the speedometer, plus you will be putting so much power through the drivetrain that any mis-alignment in the drivelines will be made obvious; * Rear vibration - felt primarily in the kidneys, seat bottom, or the floorboard. There should be none! Evidence to this point on these trucks suggests that rear pinion angle mis-alignment will reveal itself as a strong 'humming' vibration at 67-73 mph (depending on tire size); you will know it is the rear driveline as the vibration will always be present but intensity increases with engine load - the more power you are putting through the driveline to the ground the stronger the shaking is - coasting, you can't feel it; pulling a grade at 70mph full throttle, it's pretty violent. Mr. P.

Thanks for the good idea. Mr. P.

Just so everyone reading this is clear - I am not displeased at all with JAG Performance or in the products I purchased (the opposite, I love it); the topic discussed here was making a how-to on shift kit installation and I was only speaking to the point that I know there is already a installation video available from TransGo for their shift-kit. Mr. P.

Yeah I was thinking of doing a how-to when I did mine, but you would need a whole family of how-tos, one for the Zippy kit, another for the transgo kit, another for the servos. The TransGo kit is *supposed* to come with an instructional video although I never got one with my purchase from JAG Performance; but instead Joe did share his cel phone number! Mr. P.

Making sweet love, down by the fire... Mr. P.

My doors leak bad, I think I am going to ask the dealer to have them looked at this winter. I also had a howl > 90mph, that was corrected by replacing the pass rear window. Mr. P.

shift kit: TransGo HD2-C servo's: Sonnax 4th Gear "Super Hold" Billet Dual Servo, Corvette 2nd Gear Servo where did you get your kit? JAG Performance who installed it for you? Myself initially, then Joe Guttierrez (JAG Performance) uses of the truck? Commuting, real fast commuting what torque converter do you have? Torque Converter Shop TCS 2800 any other transmission modifications you have done/had done to your truck... B/W low roller clutch, 5-pinion front/rear planet assemblies, hi-po output pump slide spring, B/W 29-element forward sprag, steel .5-in boost valve, wide red band performance lining, Z-pack 15-element hi-po 3/4 clutches, Beast HD shell w/ bearings and wide bushing in reaction gear, hi-po forward & overrun clutches, B/W low/reverse clutches, hardened pump rings...

Major drama at the parts counter tonight, I went to pick up the deflector at the dealer and was told that even though they called me to come pick it up after work the did not have it. I was pissed. Told them to specifically not ring my phone until they had it in their hands next time... Mr. P.

Dude that front bumper of yours will be sweeping cigarette butts up off the pavement! Mr. P.

OK guys count me in too - I just got mine from the dealer too so looks like all of us are are bolting on a chin spoiler tonight! Mr. P.

You 'da MAN! Mr. P.