BenKey Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Just thinking about some things. Haven't heard yet on the diagnosis of my motor (block), but hope to by tomorrow. What I was thinking about, since I know that I have to buy new pistons, is going back to the 10:1CR, or higher if possible, and selling the STS kit that still sits in the box on my dining room floor. Buying a NX setup, headers, possibly bigger cam, and running a 200-shot. I've put close to $4k into the original build of this motor, and it will cost at least $700 to get it running again. Probably closer to $1000. Trust me, my wife has been pretty cool about everything so far. So, this is not from her nagging and that never stopped me before anyway. If I continue with the STS setup, I know that more cost will be incurred to get me to my planned 15lbs of boost. A FMIC is one thing and probably a few others. Since I am fairly close to transferring (AUG), I probably would wait until I get to VA (where I'm going) to install. Maybe not, but since I do have to drive my truck 1200 miles, probably. The main thing is, since the 80E equation has not been solved, pushing that tranny to it's limit will probably be pretty easy with 700+hp. If I broke it, especially before I made the trip, I'd be hurting for time. Erik can contest to how long things take to happen at this level. I've already lost 6 months not driving my truck this past year and present already. That's a whole lot of fishing. A built 80E is the only thing that is going to hold that much power for any length of time, IMO. I'm sure my tranny would hold just as good as any other 65E, but it would be on borrowed time for sure. I haven't really thought this all the way through. It would only happen if I could get what I paid for the STS ($4200). It's a GT-70 kit. Just wonder what you guys think?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
styleandspeed Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 There is a good chance that you could get back what you paid for the kit, but that definately isn't guaranteed. The other route will be much cheaper to build, and easier on the tranny when you aren't spraying, but it will not always be there. You will have to be filling up bottles when you want to run. The STS kit would be badass, and if you can pull it off and money isn't a big deal then go for the STS kit. I know that I couldn't afford it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Sounds like a smart and rational decision. You know your motor needs some miles on it without a power adder in the mix. No need in hanging on to the STS for another 9 months. Just get the truck back to a reliable driver for a while. Do you still have your original block? Didn't you find some + size cam bearings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 There is a good chance that you could get back what you paid for the kit, but that definately isn't guaranteed. The other route will be much cheaper to build, and easier on the tranny when you aren't spraying, but it will not always be there. You will have to be filling up bottles when you want to run. The STS kit would be badass, and if you can pull it off and money isn't a big deal then go for the STS kit. I know that I couldn't afford it anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hear what you sy about having to fill a bottle. I would only use a setup like that at the track anyway. Any other time, I should be able to get close to 550hp on a 10.5:1 CR 408. That would almost be like my Radix setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Sounds like a smart and rational decision. You know your motor needs some miles on it without a power adder in the mix. No need in hanging on to the STS for another 9 months. Just get the truck back to a reliable driver for a while. Do you still have your original block? Didn't you find some + size cam bearings? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be nice to have my truck for a while! I still have the old block. They do make the over-size cam bearing for it now. I may be using it as an option. the only thing is, I would have to get another set of head studs. 408 is a '04 block. Blocks changed slightly and required a different ARP head stud that cost twice as much. Would have to get the older ones. I forgot to mention that if I go this route, my heads are going in to be re-worked also. I haven't talked to TEA at all, but intend to go with a stg III setup with bigger valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vette dude Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 go nitrous ben, and if u get bored with it run a FI down the road.... thats my opinion, take it for whatever its worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Tough call, Ben. I don't think you'll be able to get all of your money back, but what do I know? On the other hand, you could put the STS on and just run low boost until you feel like messing with the FMIC stuff. That would solve the computer issue as well. A 9.5:1 408 with 5-7psi would probably be in the mid-low 11s (if we can use Parish's gtech results as a basis). No matter how you shake it, mid 11s in a 5000# truck is respectable. With 9.5:1, you might even get 9psi non-cooled... N2O sounds like a lot of fun. A high CR 413 sounds like a lot of fun too. You could also go 11-11.5:1 and run the gas... That would be fun Something to consider here, is that NA, I bet you'll need an intake manifold and TB (as GMU found on his 427), whereas you wouldn't need that with the turbo. Also, you'll probably end up wanting headers again for NA (I would)? But you could also drop back to the 42lb injectors and sell your 60s for $550ish. Either option probably wants the stgIII heads, so that one's a wash. NA + N20 is definitely an easier tune, IMO. Not a lot of help, am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSminneapolis Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 i say just get er running. then you will get a little more excited about finishing things up...NA with NX sounds like a good idea...as said perviously - tranny might last a bit longer...surely longer and less expensive than going for 15# boost and then droppin $$$ on a 80E and everything necessary to get it to work... just make sure it is ready for MI...we'll line em up...i get a 3 second head start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r8rs4lf Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Maybe you can make me understand................. I don't get what exactly you are trying to do. If you want to go sooo fast in a vehicle, why didn't you purchase something other than a truck? It kind of puzzles me that you have been without your truck for about 6 months and it looks like your going around in a big circle because now your talking about going N/A with about the same set up as you had with the Radix (your words.) All the time and money you have invested and still 6 months down the road, no truck. Add to that, you still have a brand new STS kit sitting in your house that you are now contemplating getting rid of. You also don't have a tranny that can handle the power that you plan on putting down??? I'm not flaming you by no means, as a matter of fact you have my utmost respect for what you are doing, but I just don't get it. Was it a lack of better planning or did things drastically change mid project? Six months, $4k, and still no truck??? Hell, I'd be pretty burned out my damn self. Late- Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 ... did things drastically change mid project? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep. Ben had some major trouble with the new motor fleeing Hurricane Ivan (or one of 'em anyhow -- seems like one month long hurricane at this point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bseen Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 The 408 with higher comp is going to be alot of power by itself and then put some nx power on top and you would be to the limits of the axles and drive shafts at that point. If we can just get a trans to stay together then we can see what else breaks. Btw I am going with the big motor and a little gas in the next few month myself, so you can tell what I think you should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbents10 Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Tough call, been thre done that. I have owned about a total of 4 setups and sold them and never put them on the 01'. 4.3l heads and cam NA 4,3l heads and cam fogger progressive controler, then sold that got a ATI procharger, sold that for the 6.0l bought a t-rex then sold it bought a PT4400 then sold it. was gonna turbo then decided to do the 96' insted now its 220/224 571/581 114 with a 1-5 colorado converter and a little juice for a 10 second truck that drives like stock. Just tying to say its not gonna kill you to sell it, you will end up doing something that is better in the whole for you. Most important is driving that thing ASAP so you can enjoy it agian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superman Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Ben you know what i think! ! ! NOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L Z71 Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 If funds are limited Ben, I would say dump the STS kit and just do a big shot of nitrous. Eventually get a progressive controller to add more nitrous as RPM raises so you'll keep your top end power which nitrous system tend to lack compared to a good turbo or blower. The turbo is more expensive right now and since you could easily sell it and recoup some money that will allow you to finish the truck and get a stronger trans and actually go enjoy the truck. Don't get me wrong, I love my turbo but if I didn't have the extra money I would have went with nitrous. The 408 is going to make great power N/A so even off the bottle you're going to kick ass..... Just don't run out of bottle when Erik is around ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 I don't get what exactly you are trying to do. If you want to go sooo fast in a vehicle, why didn't you purchase something other than a truck? It seems to me that you could ask that question for about 30% on the people on here. I want to go fast "in a truck". If that doesn't interest you, well....we all have our own preferences. I personally would never own anything but. kind of puzzles me that you have been without your truck for about 6 months Actually it's been about 5 months right now. That is a total down time, not a future expectation. First was on the stock motor - it went down to loss of oil pressure. Then, a custom stroker rotating assy takes time to deliver and for everything else that comes with to fall together. If you have read any of Erik's posts or any of those by the man in my signature, although mine was not quite as bad as an experience, it usually takes a little time. You don't walk in and pick one off the shelf and every builder out there does other work other than your's. After it was built, I had the current problems. looks like your going around in a big circle because now your talking about going N/A with about the same set up as you had with the Radix (your words.) All the time and money you have invested and still 6 months down the road, no truck. I am not going in any circles. I have the option of making changes now before the motor is put back together and exploring the idea, that's all. It's hard looking at something everyday and you can't do anything with it. Especially, when it cost as much as it did. It was hard enough justifying it to my wife in the beginning. Gets harder everyday justifying it to myself. My reference to the Radix was just saying that my hp with the stock motor and Radix, as compared to a 10:1 CR 408, would be comparable. Meaning even without the turbo, it's still going to be extremely fun to drive. You also don't have a tranny that can handle the power that you plan on putting down??? My tranny has been built. A 4L65 is only going to be so strong, IMO. I think mine would last because despite whatever hp I've had with my truck, pushing it to it's limits has not been something I've done all the time. Eventually, like I said, it would go. When, would be up to me and my driving habits, same as any of us. Not many on here have the tranny to support the power they want. Especially if they can break with some minor mods. Go to the tranny forum and you can see that. I'm not flaming you by no means, as a matter of fact you have my utmost respect for what you are doing, but I just don't get it. Uhh....okay. What part don't you get? Making my truck fast as I want it? Was it a lack of better planning or did things drastically change mid project? It has been planned. How things turn out are not always our control. This is actually something that I had considered when I first initiated the 408 build. Now that I've had problems that I didn't expect, I'm beginning to feel it was better to stay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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