House blew up down the street

[FireRescueSS]

Actually dessertss, it seems like you do agree with fireman31. He stated, and you quoted "Regardless if you have a CO detector with or without a digital readout, if it activates, call your FD. Carbon Monoxide is nothing to play around with." Granted, one with a read-out is better, but I rather have the older style, non-read one model over NONE what so ever. Also, as stated, if you monitor is set off, regardless of the mode, please notify your local fire department, as they know how to treat, and generally able and trained to locate, as well as the SCBA.

 

We keep a highly advanced hand held reader on our main structure engine, as well as standard commerical on our squad and rescue. Also, CO is not a nuisance call, and we respound emergency until dispatch has confirmed all occupants are out of the building.

Edited July 13, 2007 by FireRescueSS (see edit history)

[Fireman31]

i disagree with you fireman, most carbon monoxide detectors on the market do not emit an audible alarm until they reach 70ppm,,, which can be deadly if exposed to for more than 4 hrs. carbon monoxide builds in your body, if you have one with a digital readout you can detect it before it becomes a problem. that is why you need a readout. the manufacturer makes such a high level to prevent you from getting nuisance calls. but carbon monoxide is never a nuisance.

i have a commercial hand held that will read carbon monoxide levels into the parts per billion.

i will not sell a dectetor that doesnt have a read out and i always educate my customer of the hazard of continued exposure of even small doses of CO.

 

First off, a CO detector that doesn't activate until it reaches 70ppm should be thrown in the trash. We as professional firefighters start using our SCBA(Scott Packs) at 50+ppm. At that level, being first responders, it becomes dangerous to us. 50ppm is the maximum permissable exposure limit for an 8-hour period according to OSHA. Our air sampling meters start going into alarm at 30ppm. We get calls for CO activations all the time, most are false alarms for dirty/old detectors. The occasional true CO emergency is usually caused by a defective oil burner/water heater, and the readings usually range from 5ppm-30ppm average. But like I said not every call is the same.....we had a puff back last weekend and got readings of 400ppm (life threatening after 3 hours) in the basement. I don't know where you get your information from, but any CO detector that doesn't activate until it reaches 70ppm is useless.

 

I will post CO levels in relation to health effects tonight.

[cwest94]

There have been a couple houses around my parts blow up this year so far. The one was someone trying to commit suicide. He pulled the hoses out from a gas range or water heater and sat in a room. Two of his friends were worried about him and decided to go over and visit him to see how he was doing. Well they pulled up in front of the house and as the one lady was walking towards the front door, BANG!! The entire house was all over the place, and destroyed about like 5 other houses around it.

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06333/742021-85.stm

[desertss]

First off, a CO detector that doesn't activate until it reaches 70ppm should be thrown in the trash. . I don't know where you get your information from, but any CO detector that doesn't activate until it reaches 70ppm is useless.

 

I will post CO levels in relation to health effects tonight.

 

check the package instructions on some of the cheap non readout dectors out there, the audible alarm does not sound until between 40-70 ppm.

i am a heating and air cond service tech, i too am a professional, that is why i say you need one with a readout, but levels of 3-4ppm can be caused just by someone who is a light smoker in the house with no fresh air makeup. any dectector is better than none. i am just stating which is the better choice. why whould you advise someone not to get the best. you wouldnt get a cheap ineffective fire extinguisher, why get a cheap ineffective co alarm.

 

 

levels of concentration according to ashrae (american society of heating refrig air conc engineers)

 

9ppm max allowable concentration for short term exposure in a living area

 

35ppm max allowable for continued exposure in an 8 hr period (federal law)

 

100ppm slight headache in 2-3 hrs

 

200ppm max concentration allowable at any time according to osha, headache, fatigue, dizziness, nausea after 1-3 hrs

 

400ppm frontal headache within 1 hr life threatning after 3 hrs. max allowable limit for flue gas according to epa and aga (american gas assoc)

 

800ppm dizziness nausea and convulsions within 30 minutes insensible within 1-2 hrs

 

1600 ppm death within 1 hr

 

3200 ppm death within 30 min

 

6400 ppm death within 15 min

 

12,800 ppm death within 1-3 min

 

you are right co is never a nuisance call, the manufacturer sets a higher alarm to keep it from "nuisance tripping is what they call it"

[Fireman31]

According to UL 2034 section 38.1, "The carbon monoxide detector shall operate (alarm activation) at or below the test points specified......." meaning that they should operate at or below that 70ppm mark.....but in my mind if it takes 70ppm to finally activate, its time to replace the detector....

 

Here's the link....

UL 2034

[desertss]

now we are on the same team fireman, see why i say get one with a readout? you can walk by and if you see its reading something, you have an early warning, before the co builds up in your bloodstream, and can get the cause rectified.

Edited July 13, 2007 by desertss (see edit history)

[Fireman31]

See I am too in the industry, the alarm industry that is, we install these on a regular basis.....

 

this is the list of symptoms that my FD gives to the residents in the community.....

 

35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure

100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours

200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours

400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours

800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes. Insensible within two hours.

1,600 ppm (0.16%) Headache, dizziness, and nausea within 20 minutes. Death in less than two hours.

3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.

6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Death in less than 20 minutes.

12,800 ppm (1.28%) Death in less than three minutes.

 

I am not saying that people should buy the cheap detectors, but some folks are frugal......

And also, who is to say that the detector and its readout are accurate, homeowners usually don't perform regular maintenance on their CO detectors.....

 

our meters in the FD get calibrated once every three months......

 

In my mind, 70ppm is still too high for the initial alarm to activate........especiallty with children or the elderly around.......

[Fireman31]

now we are on the same team fireman, see why i say get one with a readout? you can walk by and if you see its reading something, you have an early warning, before the co builds up in your bloodstream, and can get the cause rectified.

 

I think we were on the same team all along desertss, we just had a different view of the topic............

[FireRescueSS]

I believe I posted awhile ago that you two were on the same side of the topic (everyone has been actually).

 

I feel like I've stumbled across a school nursery here....

[Fireman31]

I believe I posted awhile ago that you two were on the same side of the topic (everyone has been actually).

 

I feel like I've stumbled across a school nursery here....