chpspecial Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 very nice info kevin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 I remember when those maps first came out...its pretty impressive how much more efficent the TVS1900s are. I can see this info going into a "make your radix fast as it can" stickey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 ...the temps generated are fairly flat up until the 10,000 blower RPM threshold then increase dramatically...shifting higher doesn't mean a faster truck, infact may actually hurt your ET... And put you at maximum risk of grenading the motor if your tune is off! ...I can see this info going into a "make your radix fast as it can" stickey! Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICE EATER Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 veryyyy intersting.. i do like the fact of a how to make a radix as fast as you can sticky..lol i would diffently say kevins pushed the 112 to the limits...im just very curious about a few things..being a 1 inch spacer between the blower and lower pan...and a bigger intercooler..ive have a connection that can make an intercooler out of a honeycomb type thats suppost to be twice as efficent as the normal bar type..they use it on the land speed cars etc..its expensive but in this app it might be worth it im also very curious about pullin the lower off and doin some port work..it seems veryyyy restrictive and if some one were willing to take the time it might be worth alot of gains..soo maybe il get bored and find out i knew the tvs 1900 was suppost to be alot better..but hadnt really seen the numbers to back that up...i was kinda starting to think its all hype..but for the looks of the maps hell you have more then 2000 more rotor rpms to play with and over all alot more flow..it looks like no one as really spent the time kevin did on the 112 to see what it really can do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Woah, that's a lot to take in. I wish I had some of the related info for my Powerdyne (pretty sure it's a 3" pulley)... I'm getting closer and closer to going with another source tune. But I won't be able to afford all the dyno time to get her dialed in. $155/hr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 veryyyy intersting.. i do like the fact of a how to make a radix as fast as you can sticky..lol ...im just very curious about a few things..being a 1 inch spacer between the blower and lower pan...and a bigger intercooler..ive have a connection that can make an intercooler out of a honeycomb type thats suppost to be twice as efficent as the normal bar type..they use it on the land speed cars etc..its expensive but in this app it might be worth it. There have been alot of guys that have dabbled with this idea with minimal improvements to power. Some have done a series of large heat exchangers (from the CTS-V) and have shown a small improvement in IATs. The real issue is the tiny intercooler under the rotors of the 112. It simply does not have the capability to reduce the heat generated by spinning the blower well beyond its intended RPMs. This intercooler is also a substantial flow restriction at high boost/high rotor RPMs. I have actually considered removing this heat exchanger back in the day and tapping a direct port meth kit into the lower manifold. Trick Performance had a prototype however abandoned the idea. I was disappointed. Talk to Ray (supersub) as he has a very trick phenolic spacer that can be plumbed for under the intercooler meth/nitrous. im also very curious about pullin the lower off and doing some port work..it seems veryyyy restrictive and if some one were willing to take the time it might be worth alot of gains..soo maybe il get bored and find out Someone has done some pretty extensive port work to the lower manifold however didn't show much gains. Granted he didn't get much time to test it at the track but the truck didn't run any faster. FYI, it was Richard aka BigTex. Richard has done more "out of the box" modifications to a radix'd 6.0L than I ever did. I used alot of his recommendations and trial and error results when messing with my set-up. He is without a doubt a very capable and skillful gear head. He is the one who actually got me into the tuning stuff back in the day with LS1-Edit. I learned a wealth of info from him and am thankful he participates on these forums and shares his results. I do the same because of it. i knew the tvs 1900 was suppost to be alot better..but hadnt really seen the numbers to back that up...i was kinda starting to think its all hype..but for the looks of the maps hell you have more then 2000 more rotor rpms to play with and over all alot more flow.. Yea, the TVS designs are far superior and even more so than the graph show. The maps for the 112 are actually for a later generation 112 as I could not find the early 112's. If you remember, at the end of the 112's design lifeframe, they (eaton/magnacharger) experimented with the HH (High Helix) variety of rotors which were better however not anywhere near the TVS lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 ...a 1 inch spacer between the blower and lower pan... SuperSub did this on his TVS and posted it was well worth the effort. This single design fact is why I hate the Magnusson products, their air-to-water intercooler design leaves a lot to be desired. The intercooler sandwiched between blower and manifold is 'wicking' heat more out of the engine heads than it is the intake charge; so Magnusson-equipped trucks have less heat going into the engine radiator because that heat is escaping into the intercooler. Isolate the intercooler in a phenolic-resin gasket sandwich and you eliminate that path of heat transfer, and the intercooler can do it's job of cooling IATs, not cooling the engine heads via the aluminum lower intake manifold. ...and a bigger intercooler... We helped install a second heat-exchanger on BroBrad's truck, so he has twice the H/E finned area and 3x the volume of water in the H/E circuit and his IATs immediately dropped 20-degrees across the board, which was FAR better cooling performance than I expected. The reason why is not only that there is more area for the heat exchangers to shed heat into the air, but that it is far larger volume so the water itself spends 3x more time being chilled before returning to the manifold. The timing is the key, any way that you can keep the water in the chillers longer is a great thing. ...make an intercooler out of a honeycomb type thats suppost to be twice as efficent as the normal bar type... Not a bad idea actually. I have no idea what the cost is! If I were to make a water-to-air intercooler design then I'd combine both BroBrad's idea and your idea - I would have two high-efficiency heat exchangers about 22" x 10" x 3.25" each, mount one just behind the front grille and the second behind the front bumper (opening) and route the water from the resevoir to the pump, then into the lower H/E first (gets the water from "hot" to "warm") then to the upper H/E (gets the water from "warm" to "luke warm") then return to the manifold. You would have 4x the volume of liquid in the H/E, so the coolant would loiter in the air for 4x longer giving nature a lot more TIME to shed heat from the coolant. The added volume of coolant would also stave-off "IAT creep" during a 1/4-m pass. OR, you can do what I did - go centrifugal air-to-air, have only 15-lbs of intercooler and IATs never higher than 20-degrees above ambient LOL. That's the real number here - can you get a Radix'd truck to have IATs at the track under 130-degrees? 120-degrees? 100-degrees? Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICE EATER Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 i belive trick performace did finish there protype and are now selling the 1 inch spacer with both isolating gaskets for $300..and they have a larger heat exchanger for under the rotors for $750..or $1050 for both. i was very curious about the honeycomb design for under the rotors i think i can get a protype made for that kinda money..and combine that with what Mr.p/brobrads truck/idea's and might be on to something i also belive they have the same setup for the tvs 1900 not sure about the 2300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 More poeple should look at what Ray is doing with the spacer...it makes alot of since. Longer runners, thermal brake between the head unit and the engine. really gets back to the 112 being out of it efficency, making more heat...and how do you get the heat out?? dont let the head unit heat soak the engine and what I see as the best step is to isolate the head unit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICE EATER Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 More poeple should look at what Ray is doing with the spacer...it makes alot of since. Longer runners, thermal brake between the head unit and the engine. really gets back to the 112 being out of it efficency, making more heat...and how do you get the heat out?? dont let the head unit heat soak the engine and what I see as the best step is to isolate the head unit... i belive trick performace was also tryin to put in 3 spray bars....one for meth..one for nitrous..and one for fuel.. i dont think they found a way to fit in all 3..but i to belive they could get 2 in which is pretty impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICE EATER Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 i didnt realize some one has already done alot of port work to the lower already..im pretty shocked they didnt see much gains. it looks pretty restrictive. ive seen some other blowers see very solid gains but doin similar things.. but i guess it all goes back to the actual effency of the 112 .. which again goes back to just tryin to keep the heat soak out of the damn thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Ray and trick are trying different approaches...I personally like the way ray is only adding a spacer, and can see the results, while trick is throwing the kitchen sink at it and the gains would be harder to isolate...plus it makes adding bigger injectors easier. the other idea I had (which got little love on pt.net) was maybe using a different intercooler core, the lamnovia type. They used the factory with the 122 on the 4.4 northstar...but looks like the TVS's also have a bigger core inside the tube... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICE EATER Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 well i agree its nice to see the gains from each mod step by step..but at the same time if your going to do one..why wouldnt you do the other. i would expect to see gains by helping the iats with replacing the heat exchanger.. it would be nice to know what the gains are for each ofcourse. what is the lamnovia core look like? ..this was kinda of point before the kinda of money they want for the heat exchanger i would expect it to be a better type of core material.. il try to get ahold of my builder about the honeycomb type and see what it would roughly cost..maybe its alot more expensive then im thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 More poeple should look at what Ray is doing with the spacer...it makes alot of since. Longer runners, thermal brake between the head unit and the engine... Another fantastic idea. And far simpler than modifying the manifold/intercooler. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowfive0 Posted October 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) I would add one more thing: A little patience. A certain manufacturer is working on an improved intercooling system for the truck platform that will involve the same type of integral blower system but with remote cooling. They were thinking why not utilize some of the room we have under the hood of the truck platforms.... Should be out this next year. The only question will be if it will work on these older cathedral port heads........ My feeling is probably not, but we'll see..... Supposed to be a HUGE improvement! and may allow us to get more out of our existing combos or at least a better intercooling option. Edited October 19, 2010 by slowfive0 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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