Silverad0 SS Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 i never see anyone talking about them do they work or are they snake oil??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverado777 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 i never see anyone talking about them do they work or are they snake oil??? Sure a bigger MAF will help. Only if you have a CAI and bigger TB. But the gains aren't worth the price. Stock MAF flow plenty. The only reason I would ever upgrade is if I had a huge turbo sucking on gobs of air. Even then it would be one of the last things I buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bfast Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Sure a bigger MAF will help. Only if you have a CAI and bigger TB. But the gains aren't worth the price. Stock MAF flow plenty. The only reason I would ever upgrade is if I had a huge turbo sucking on gobs of air. Even then it would be one of the last things I buy. After so much air flow, the MAF is useless and will need to be eliminated. In most cases...... Edited March 30, 2011 by 2BFAST (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 There are TWO problems with the MAF system on Gen-III trucks; first is the MAF sensor itself will only measure enough air up to about 8psi boost on a 6.0L, but this *can* be physically upgraded with something like the Lingenfelter MAF w/ Hitachi sensor; the second (more important) issue though is that even after installing a larger MAF the PCM itself cannot natively deal with the larger MAF numbers. End story is, if you are making more than about 8psi boost on a Gen-III motor & PCM then delete the MAF completely and take the money you would have spent on an aftermarket MAF setup and go speed-density (MAF-less) in your tune, you won't be disappointed. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 There are TWO problems with the MAF system on Gen-III trucks; first is the MAF sensor itself will only measure enough air up to about 8psi boost on a 6.0L, but this *can* be physically upgraded with something like the Lingenfelter MAF w/ Hitachi sensor; the second (more important) issue though is that even after installing a larger MAF the PCM itself cannot natively deal with the larger MAF numbers. End story is, if you are making more than about 8psi boost on a Gen-III motor & PCM then delete the MAF completely and take the money you would have spent on an aftermarket MAF setup and go speed-density (MAF-less) in your tune, you won't be disappointed. Mr. P. What he said, once you get into this your going to want to run a SD tune anyway. The MAF is pretty inconstant at high HP levels. My buddy is running the ls7 MAF which might be an option..but we're turning that off now anyway. I'm taking the MAF out of the truck this year and just adding a IAT sensor to my intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 A SD tune on a big power FI setup is about the simplest way to go.Well proven at 1000+RWHP.My tuner is probably one of the only people who has taken a MAF tune to 1000+.It gives you better street manners but is very complicated.A quality SD dyno tune is worth $600-$1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 may i ask who your tuner is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 A SD tune on a big power FI setup is about the simplest way to go.Well proven at 1000+RWHP.My tuner is probably one of the only people who has taken a MAF tune to 1000+.It gives you better street manners but is very complicated.A quality SD dyno tune is worth $600-$1000. There are several tuners that have taken a MAF tune to those power levels. Simple linear scaling of about 30 or so tables in your tune file will keep you from "maxing" the MAF limits. Of course you lots of resolution but it is an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 OK.What kind of vehicles do you know of that went that far with a MAF tune? Thanks There are several tuners that have taken a MAF tune to those power levels. Simple linear scaling of about 30 or so tables in your tune file will keep you from "maxing" the MAF limits. Of course you lots of resolution but it is an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Kevin at Champion Motors. may i ask who your tuner is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) OK.What kind of vehicles do you know of that went that far with a MAF tune? Thanks Many. Mostly F-bodies and vettes. I know these guys have done MANY 800+RWHP MAF tunes: My link I see guys from this place quite often at the track: My link I went over one guy's tune (cammed, bolted C5 with a procharger - 15lbs of boost) and he was running a MAF tune. It appeared to be properly scaled to keep the MAF from being pegged. Going off his times, the car made some nice power. He claimed upper 800's on the dyno (which I question) however surely a beast. I know I am not blown or been on a dyno with my new set-up however I run MAF and feel pretty confident I put down 750+ to the wheels (based on weight and 1/4 mile times). If you search the HP Tuners forum you can find 900-1K RWHP set-ups running a MAF. At that level, most choose to go to a COS 2/3bar set-up because it has some additional tables that prove very helpful when fueling a big boosted set-up. Now the newer LS3's MAF cal and PCM support 1024gr/s (vs the 512 limit) which is great for the boosted guys. Most don't even need to scale if they choose to run the MAF. This guy appears to be tuning a 900 RWHP vette with a MAF: My link Edited March 31, 2011 by Krambo (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I'm not a tuner.That is why I get someone else to do it.This is my buddy's C6.About a year ago the only way he could make this kind of power was with a SD tune.Now they are using a LS9 MAF on his C6 and approaching 1100 RWHP.I wanted to get the same tune done on my C5 as I have reached my limit with a 2 bar MAP.I only make 671RWHP but it was good enough for a 9.96 @144 and if I would have hooked it would have gone 9.5s.I wanted to get a MAF tune as they are much more streetable then a SD tune.I was told last year that the C5s computer cannot support this kind of power with a MAF tune.I was going to go for a 3 bar SD tune so that I could run more then 14#s of boost.My tuner says now that he has figured out how to do the MAF tune on a C5 with a larger MAF such as the LS9 or aftermarket.He also said that it wasn't as simple as splitting the VE tables.Maybe he was putting me on. .It's a surprize to me that you say MAF tunes have been reaching these numbers for a while.Congrats on your numbers with a heavy truck.What kind of tune are you using? http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-forced-induction-nitrous/2737684-worlds-highest-hp-ttix-built-by-champion.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I'm not a tuner.That is why I get someone else to do it.This is my buddy's C6.About a year ago the only way he could make this kind of power was with a SD tune.Now they are using a LS9 MAF on his C6 and approaching 1100 RWHP.I wanted to get the same tune done on my C5 as I have reached my limit with a 2 bar MAP.I only make 671RWHP but it was good enough for a 9.96 @144 and if I would have hooked it would have gone 9.5s.I wanted to get a MAF tune as they are much more streetable then a SD tune.I was told last year that the C5s computer cannot support this kind of power with a MAF tune.I was going to go for a 3 bar SD tune so that I could run more then 14#s of boost.My tuner says now that he has figured out how to do the MAF tune on a C5 with a larger MAF such as the LS9 or aftermarket.He also said that it wasn't as simple as splitting the VE tables.Maybe he was putting me on. .It's a surprize to me that you say MAF tunes have been reaching these numbers for a while.Congrats on your numbers with a heavy truck.What kind of tune are you using? http://forums.corvet...y-champion.html hate to say it but Krambo is right, the only way to keep a MAF tune on a C5 with out doing a pcm swap is to scale down all the tables as he mention.. and at that point you are basically fueling much the same as SD, with SD being better to control. The limit on the LS1 style pcm's isn't the hardware (ls9 maf wont do nothing here) its the hard limit set by GM in the code. You can swap MAF's all day long but a more precise metering stick, or a bigger one, wont do nothing when the PCM has it limit at 12kHz. Think of it this way, just because you have a higher resolution yard stick, it does nothing if you are only allowed to recognize the inch tick and nothing else... and getting a two meter long stick will do nothing either if you can only see to the 36" mark, anything above and it just means that the MAF fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 You guys aren't the first ones to tell me this.Maybe I will stick with the SD tune and a 3 bar MAP.My car is very driveable right now so I don't know what I will really gain with the MAF.I'll let you know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I wanted to get the same tune done on my C5 as I have reached my limit with a 2 bar MAP.I only make 671RWHP but it was good enough for a 9.96 @144 and if I would have hooked it would have gone 9.5s.I wanted to get a MAF tune as they are much more streetable then a SD tune. LOL! ONLY 671RWHP and running 9's. Come on, that is just awesome! Congrats on hitting the 9's...that is quite an acomplishment. Just my recommendation however have your tuner do a detailed 3bar COS Speed Density Tune. It will have all around better control of the fueling IMO. If done right, the car should have fairly good street manners and of course be an animal at the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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