Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 not sure what u mean but the pcm is callibrated to the stock cam so a new cam (bigger) is gonna need more air and fuel.....im not a tuner so im probally way off.... but i think it has something to do with idle air demand?...once again im not a tuner but i do know that switching to a bigger cam or any aftermarket cam is gonna need to be tuned this one might be a lil to advanced for ur buddy lol not tryin to be rude but tuning takes alot of learning yeah i know it might be too advanced for him lol the truck is orignally tuned by justin at blackbear but i only have a mail order tune.. i went with my buddy to tune it after the cam install cuz he has hp tuners and can log here on the lap top.. but i didnt know how well justin could over mail order tunning.. but i am going to talk to him about it and what i should do.. i wish a tuner could chim in here lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sik-rod-yo Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Sounds more like a exhaust leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Sounds more like a exhaust leak really? like from the headers??? cuz its a very loud metal on metal sound.. like a slapp or something.. its louder than the sewing machine noise people say they get from cam upgrade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sik-rod-yo Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 U did ur tc right and u un bolted ur exhaust so u might need to bk track or double every thing u unbolt IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 U did ur tc right and u un bolted ur exhaust so u might need to bk track or double every thing u unbolt IMO yeah i did my TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 not sure what u mean but the pcm is callibrated to the stock cam so a new cam (bigger) is gonna need more air and fuel.....im not a tuner so im probally way off.... but i think it has something to do with idle air demand?...once again im not a tuner but i do know that switching to a bigger cam or any aftermarket cam is gonna need to be tuned this one might be a lil to advanced for ur buddy lol not tryin to be rude but tuning takes alot of learning he also said idle airflow was the first thing he did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverado777 Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Did you swap the rockers out? My adjustable roller rocker are noisy has heck and drive me nuts someimes. But thats only at idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman31 Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 The springs you used really are overkill for that cam, it's almost guaranteed that is the noise you are hearing. PAC 1218's(single beehive .600 lift) would have been more then enough. I am running the 1218's with a TSP228R, and they are quite noisey, I can just imagine how loud the dual PRC's are, especially those since they are very stiff from the amount of lift they can support....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) The springs you used really are overkill for that cam, it's almost guaranteed that is the noise you are hearing. PAC 1218's(single beehive .600 lift) would have been more then enough. I am running the 1218's with a TSP228R, and they are quite noisey, I can just imagine how loud the dual PRC's are, especially those since they are very stiff from the amount of lift they can support....... but would they make the KR readylike 2.4 all the way up too 8.0?? and if that was the case the truck wont stay running anymore it fires up for like a second then dies... Edited August 7, 2011 by 1BadSilvy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Did you swap the rockers out? My adjustable roller rocker are noisy has heck and drive me nuts someimes. But thats only at idle. no they are stock rockers man.. only thing i left stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 First of all relax, you just made a big difference in can profile and the stock it stockish can tune will not support your new cam. YOU NEED TO BE TUNED. Justin has tuned a few of these cans and can get you situated quick. The new cam, springs, and TC will make your knock sensors go nuts. Once again a tune will put them back in line. If your set on your buddy tuning it. Have him follow krambo's tuning guids. They will get you going. Just be patient and let your friend take his time. Also, those springs are good but noisy. Once they break in. They will sound more like a sowing machine and quiet down some. sent from my thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 First of all relax, you just made a big difference in can profile and the stock it stockish can tune will not support your new cam. YOU NEED TO BE TUNED. Justin has tuned a few of these cans and can get you situated quick. The new cam, springs, and TC will make your knock sensors go nuts. Once again a tune will put them back in line. If your set on your buddy tuning it. Have him follow krambo's tuning guids. They will get you going. Just be patient and let your friend take his time. Also, those springs are good but noisy. Once they break in. They will sound more like a sowing machine and quiet down some. sent from my thunderbolt is there anyway you can send me a link to Krambos tuning guide? or just type it in the search box? thanks for all the help i was just worried we got the cam degree wrong or i need different pushrods.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 First of all relax, you just made a big difference in can profile and the stock it stockish can tune will not support your new cam. YOU NEED TO BE TUNED. Justin has tuned a few of these cans and can get you situated quick. The new cam, springs, and TC will make your knock sensors go nuts. Once again a tune will put them back in line. If your set on your buddy tuning it. Have him follow krambo's tuning guids. They will get you going. Just be patient and let your friend take his time. Also, those springs are good but noisy. Once they break in. They will sound more like a sowing machine and quiet down some. sent from my thunderbolt and is there anyway you can give me the low down on how to start tuning it with HP Tuners?? like the basic adjustments on the tune to atleast let it idle? or is that possiable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) It doesn't matter now, but like was said above, those springs are an overkill for your set up. There will be more valve noise, there might be more kr picked up from the spring noise, your going to needlessly beat up your valve seats, you'll put more wear on the cam bearings, and your going to lose some hp just in how hard the motor has to work to turn its self over. As far as the tune, with out a mentor to help you out and help set up base files and teach how and what tables to adjust, you really should touch it. I'm not saying that to be a dick, but your going to get very frustrated that your truck is not running right and its going to take you so long to get it right. And then when its all said and done, odds are justin could make the truck run faster at the track anyway. If you truly do want to learn to tune, and i commend you if you do, you need to find a very experienced guy to lead you and/or there are a couple of ways to get further education. One way, and maybe the best for you right now because it covers what your doing, is the Greg Banish DVD: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-DVD-1/ At any rate, i bet Justin gets your truck running great on the first tune, with mail order...and safe. If your looking for a HPT tuner that can just email your buddy a tune, then you can talk to Zippy. He can set you up with a base tune that will run great the first time out. Then for tweaking you can email him logs of the truck, and he can fine tune off the logs. This would also help you to get familiar with logging and loading tunes into the truck. As far as the noise. Your motor is not tuned and has no idea what to do with that cam so odds are its bouncing around on the motor mounts trying to keep its self running, i think you said you have headers, are you sure its not the header tube hitting the frame because the motor is idling so erratic? How did you hold the lifters up or did you pull the heads as well? Heads are stock? Are you sure you got the push rods seated in the rocker arm cup? How did you tighten down the rocker arms, there is a proper sequence to make sure you get the right amount torque. Did you use assembly lube when you put the new cam and valve train back together? Did you pull the oil pump to replace the chain? Whats your oil pressure? Like CHP said you could just be hearing the new springs, they make a lot of noise, i was surprised. Wait until you add different injectors, i can hear my green top injectors fire. Your running problem is most likely from too much fuel going in, did the truck smell rich? With an aftermarket cam it will require less fuel at idle and low rpms and then there is almost a rpm line that the truck will start to drink fuel like a nice cold beer going down. Some one else said they have adjustable rockers on their motor? Why adjustable, with the range of push rods we have adjustable really isn't needed on a hydraulic set up. And you shouldn't be able to hear the rocker arms either. On a hydraulic lifter the rocker arm never leaves contact with the valve stem so it makes no noise. The "click and clack" noise is for a solid lifter. Brad Edited August 7, 2011 by shadowsniper3006 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frey Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) It doesn't matter now, but like was said above, those springs are an overkill for your set up. There will be more valve noise, there might be more kr picked up from the spring noise, your going to needlessly beat up your valve seats, you'll put more wear on the cam bearings, and your going to lose some hp just in how hard the motor has to work to turn its self over. As far as the tune, with out a mentor to help you out and help set up base files and teach how and what tables to adjust, you really should touch it. I'm not saying that to be a dick, but your going to get very frustrated that your truck is not running right and its going to take you so long to get it right. And then when its all said and done, odds are justin could make the truck run faster at the track anyway. If you truly do want to learn to tune, and i commend you if you do, you need to find a very experienced guy to lead you and/or there are a couple of ways to get further education. One way, and maybe the best for you right now because it covers what your doing, is the Greg Banish DVD: http://www.summitrac...arts/SME-DVD-1/ At any rate, i bet Justin gets your truck running great on the first tune, with mail order...and safe. If your looking for a HPT tuner that can just email your buddy a tune, then you can talk to Zippy. He can set you up with a base tune that will run great the first time out. Then for tweaking you can email him logs of the truck, and he can fine tune off the logs. This would also help you to get familiar with logging and loading tunes into the truck. As far as the noise. Your motor is not tuned and has no idea what to do with that cam so odds are its bouncing around on the motor mounts trying to keep its self running, i think you said you have headers, are you sure its not the header tube hitting the frame because the motor is idling so erratic? How did you hold the lifters up or did you pull the heads as well? Heads are stock? Are you sure you got the push rods seated in the rocker arm cup? How did you tighten down the rocker arms, there is a proper sequence to make sure you get the right amount torque. Did you use assembly lube when you put the new cam and valve train back together? Did you pull the oil pump to replace the chain? Whats your oil pressure? Like CHP said you could just be hearing the new springs, they make a lot of noise, i was surprised. Wait until you add different injectors, i can hear my green top injectors fire. Your running problem is most likely from too much fuel going in, did the truck smell rich? With an aftermarket cam it will require less fuel at idle and low rpms and then there is almost a rpm line that the truck will start to drink fuel like a nice cold beer going down. Some one else said they have adjustable rockers on their motor? Why adjustable, with the range of push rods we have adjustable really isn't needed on a hydraulic set up. And you shouldn't be able to hear the rocker arms either. On a hydraulic lifter the rocker arm never leaves contact with the valve stem so it makes no noise. The "click and clack" noise is for a solid lifter. Brad i am not doing the tune myself a buddy is and he "says he is familar with hp tuners and he has a lsx454 01 SS Camaro that he tuned" i know foresure he knows the basics with HPT but not sure on how much he knows.. i just figured i would have him tune it cuz i live in joplin, missouri.. no close places around here to have it tuned in person or a dyno tune which i really would rather due.. thats why i didnt have justin re-tune my pcm i had cuz it was mail order.. i know justin could get it down pretty good with mail order not like he could in person i know, but thats why i went with my buddy cuz he could log everything it was doing and so on.. and he has done all the work to the motor.. we pulled the heads to put the new LS7 Lifters in and i put the PRC .650lift springs, 7.4 pushrods but left the rockers stock.. now he said he tourqued them down the right way to 22ftlbs.. i put a Roll-master Double Roller timing chain on it, and LS6 Ported oil pump.. he says he knows he has the cam degreed right and lined up dot to dot.. with all the racket it is making you can tell its not a exhaust leak,.. it sounds just like metal on metal hitting.. he thinks its i have too long of pushrods.. which yes that could be possible but also him not knowing on how to tune it could be the reason too? right? so i wanna try that before i go spending money on pushrods when that isnt even the problem. i could smell gas when he was cranking on it.. but i guess right before i got there he said it ran and idled for 10mins.. and thats tru cuz he showed me the log on HPT and thats when we looked at the KR and it was going nuts then it leveled out at 0 then jumped all the way up to 8.0.. but after that he couldnt get it to stay running when i got there it chug and shake and die but mostly he would just be cranking on it forever.. so im just trying to get an idea of what could be wrong and what i should do first? thanks guys Edited August 7, 2011 by 1BadSilvy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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