Akslowroller Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 So I've been super wishy washy on the mods I want to do. For a few months I've had the idea of procharger. But I recently have had a change of heart and want some solid naturally aspirated power( with a big Tim the tool man Taylor grunt!). So I know a lot of guys here have some experience building motors and I would just like some idea thrown my way. First I am definitly doing cam and stall. Want to do a different intake as well. And change the heads. But I want most of the mods or all if possible to be usable with a supercharger setup later. Any thoughts or opinions would be great. Oh yeah since I know the first ?'s ill get will be my goals and budget. Would like to run 12's. hi low whatever just be in the ball park so I can keep up with some of my buddies with their mustangs. And budget wise I'm looking to stay within like 6 grand. About what I was planning on spending to procharge this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahoBLKss Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 buy the blower and be done, it will be the easiest route. to get into the 12's na will take allot of dedication and will probably cost the same if not more. you should pm shadowsniper he is a n/a guy thats in the 12's and i consider him the most dedicated racer thats n/a on this site. you can find a nice used procharger kit in the 2-3k $ range and hit your goal pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blown 346 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) This is exactly what Im doing. Building the motor around the Procharger for a later date. There are alot of variables as to what Intake, throttle body. injectors needed with size of heads and type of work done to them or just out of the box? Cam size, etc. With my setup with heads, intake, cam, exhaust. etc. I should be right about 475 or there so with AWHP. Then the blower gets added and then it should make close to 600 on 6 PSI. You have a good budget as cylinder heads will take up most of that, unless you arent doing the install yourself, then it will dwindle away quickly. Edited October 12, 2012 by Blown 346 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_aSSet Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 What he said ^ you doing your own labor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akslowroller Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Yeah I am doing all the labor minus the trans. Work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianVRss Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 This is exactly what Im doing. Building the motor around the Procharger for a later date. There are alot of variables as to what Intake, throttle body. injectors needed with size of heads and type of work done to them or just out of the box? Cam size, etc. With my setup with heads, intake, cam, exhaust. etc. I should be right about 475 or there so with AWHP. Then the blower gets added and then it should make close to 600 on 6 PSI. You have a good budget as cylinder heads will take up most of that, unless you arent doing the install yourself, then it will dwindle away quickly. whoa whoa whoa, wait a sec, are you saying your expecting the make 475AWHP on a N/A set up thats also boost friendly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akslowroller Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Why do you sound so surprised. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. But I am by no means a mechanic or a pro. Just curious why the shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_aSSet Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 475 to the wheels is alot for NA, and boost being mainly built around low compression shouldn't necessarily put out that much power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC03SS Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 That's alot of power wanna let us in on your mods lol. I'm curious.. Would love to see what your doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKSSS Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Lol. I should let you drive my truck. It is a DOG out of boost. But mine is built for high boost. Very low compression. Then you can think about how to go about it. Lol. I should let you drive my truck. It is a DOG out of boost. But mine is built for high boost. Very low compression. Then you can think about how to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akslowroller Posted October 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 I would definitly take you up on that but if we do get together it should happen before the snow flies. I'm just torn man. I want power lots of power hahaha. I'm so tired of all these diesel guys raggin on me and just walkin me man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) So I've been super wishy washy on the mods I want to do. For a few months I've had the idea of procharger. But I recently have had a change of heart and want some solid naturally aspirated power( with a big Tim the tool man Taylor grunt!). So I know a lot of guys here have some experience building motors and I would just like some idea thrown my way. First I am definitly doing cam and stall. Want to do a different intake as well. And change the heads. But I want most of the mods or all if possible to be usable with a supercharger setup later. Any thoughts or opinions would be great. Oh yeah since I know the first ?'s ill get will be my goals and budget. Would like to run 12's. hi low whatever just be in the ball park so I can keep up with some of my buddies with their mustangs. And budget wise I'm looking to stay within like 6 grand. About what I was planning on spending to procharge this spring. 12's Na with stock cubes is hard to come by, so far one truck, but obviously not impossible. The fact that you want to run a SC later will limit your NA motor but that doesn't mean it will not run a low 13 or break the 12's. It does mean you need to spend the money now on some good parts, not really buying what you can find used because the price is good. As far as heads go: You can use a set of ported/decked stock heads but you have to keep the decking minimal, which will hurt your NA motor. If you buy a set of ported stock heads that are decked to 68cc and run a .051 head gasket you CR would be around 10.5(assume zero deck, but when i checked my motor number one piston was .008 out of the bore). I would think that would still work for a TVS or procharger, but because of that would be the limit you could go for your NA motor. If your willing to pull the heads off and change the head gasket when you run a SC'r, you could run a .041 head gasket on the NA set up and have the benefit of 10.75 compression. Which for the money...i would do. As for the company doing the port work, i always recommend TEA, based off my experience, head/dyno comparisons in magazines and zippy's opinion of their work. here is the link to their ported heads, your looking at around $1300. They don't have a listing for 317 heads but i know they do them as i had a set. They also used to offer a stage 3(i had stage 2.5) i would ask about that. http://www.totalengineairflow.com/products-page/products/custom-porting-services/gm-products/ls1ls2ls6/gm-ls2ls6-stage-2/ But if you really want to play and get the most out of your truck, no matter what the mods, the trick flow heads are the best you can buy, In my small opinion. For a stock cubed truck i would use the 225 heads for either NA or SC, you could use the 235 but i have not done this and you might run into valve shrouding. These heads are offered in 65cc chamber and 70c, i would think the 65 is too much for a SC'd stock piston motor(10.87), and they should be able to deck the 70 cc to a 68(and run a .041 head gasket). From my experience, something about these heads really works for timing advance as well as just flow numbers. The design of the chamber(or the fact I that use their quench height recommendation) really allows the advance to be used with out hitting KR. I command 33 degrees of timing on my motor and when my buddy was using a stock cubed trick flow set up, and the truck takes it with no kr up to 7350 rpm. this can also benefit a SC'd set up with out the use of meth to get more advance. If your serous about making power this is where i would spend my money. I Paid $2800 for mine with a 10% discount(bought 2 sets), very good pac 1521 springs(for my cam and rpm), and custom hollow stem ls3 intake valves turned down for these heads. http://www.totalengineairflow.com/products-page/products/cnc-ported-cylinder-heads/gm1/ls1ls21/trick-flow-225cc-gm-ls-cylinder-heads/ $2500 Doooooo iiiiiiiiiiittttttt! For the cam, you can have Zippy, comp cams, texas speed, patrick g or any number of guys spec a cam for you. If your willing to have a cam for your NA motor and then another for the SC'd motor, you will have the best luck, but some of the FI cams can work pretty good for a NA motor by keeping cylinder pressure up, this is something you can talk about with the guy specing it. I would talk to zippy about this, however paying the minimal amount of money for a Patrick G spec is nice to have some thing to compare to and learn what another professional thinks you should use instead of forum guys like myself. Your NA cam spec is going to be very much dependent on if your willing to swap it out when you go FI. Either way figure $450. The converter is very much dependent on your cam choice for a NA motor but that depends on your choice of swapping cams and maybe re-stalling the converter when you go to FI...see the catch 22 here...almost gotta pick one if you want the max out of a setup. But if your willing to build for FI and deal with the NA...you can save money by buying parts/choosing parts once. And on top of that a lot changes if you go TVS or procharger so you need to decide that upfront, or buy parts twice. I have had luck with my circle d converter(4500) and the customer service from Chris WAS THE BEST. I told him i was going to try to break his converter...and he said...bring it(i have not yet succeeded but i'm working on it). Zippy feels the circle d converters are a little lazy below the stall(they slip more and create more heat), and chooses PI i think. I had bad luck with PI hitting the stall i wanted and will never use them again, but that's not saying the converter was not good quality. Either way figure $1000 for 3 disk so you can lock it at WOT and not worry(dyno, track if need be). As far as lifters go, unless you go with a large cam and quick valve events and high rpm, i would use the ls7 lifters. For the most money you can spend(what i use) go with morrel. LS7 about $150, morrel about $500. For the morrel stick with the lifter guides and don't get the tie bar(IMO) Get ls2 lifter guides LS2 timing chain Injectors depend on everything as well, for NA something that flows 50 at our fuel pressure should get you there and more(svo greentops). For FI maybe a deka 60, 70 something at our pressure, but it depends on how crazy you go and if you what to run E85. I would actually stick with the stock lq9 oil pump to reduce parasitic losses from high oil pressure. head gaskets depend on heads and compression wanted. Either stock gm .051 or cometic .041. Trick flow recommends .032 quench height on their 225 head. The LQ9 is supposed to be a zero deck motor, this would make quench the thickness of the head gasket. On mine i step mic'd number one piston at .008 above deck, with a .041 gasket this means you have a .033 quench(right what they want) i would use stock head bolts on the NA motor and probably on the FI motor depending on how crazy you get. Don't forget a built trans. I would buy the best right away because your going to end up there anyway...but spending twice the money if you don't buy it the first time. I would use a FLT level 7 for the NA build. For a FI build i would consider the 80 upgrade...maybe....I'm not giving in to that yet... http://www.finishlinetrans.com/transmissions/maximumPerformance4L65.htm $3300 Jon can maybe go through the upgrade cost of the 80 as he has done it, i would still buy it from FLT but a much lower cost unit. I may have missed some parts....but i'm tired and I've spent over an hour typing this at this point.... buy the blower and be done, it will be the easiest route. to get into the 12's na will take allot of dedication and will probably cost the same if not more. I hate to admit this....but its true. A nice Procharger set up can run 12's all damn day....a NA 12's truck is not as street-able(but ok if you do it right), requires a higher stall and will cost as much. I would still run the trick flow heads to prepare for anything in the future and be able to use a smaller cam based on the high flowing heads This is exactly what Im doing. Building the motor around the Procharger for a later date. There are alot of variables as to what Intake, throttle body. injectors needed with size of heads and type of work done to them or just out of the box? Cam size, etc. With my setup with heads, intake, cam, exhaust. etc. I should be right about 475 or there so with AWHP. Then the blower gets added and then it should make close to 600 on 6 PSI. You have a good budget as cylinder heads will take up most of that, unless you arent doing the install yourself, then it will dwindle away quickly. whoa whoa whoa, wait a sec, are you saying your expecting the make 475AWHP on a N/A set up thats also boost friendly? I also question your 475 AWHP. RWHP i would believe more. I ran 425 on TEA ported heads a 224 cam and supporting mods with 68 cc heads and .051 head gasket, around 10.5 at zero deck. I was able to run 465 with the same heads and cam and a .041 head gasket(10.75 at zero deck), yella terra rockers, e fans and e water pump and a victor intake with a 87mm tbss tb at the rear tires. My buddies truck was able to run 465 at the rears with TEA 225 heads, .041 head gasket(11.15), stock intake and tb and supporting mods like 1.750 headers, e fans, e water pump, yella terra rocker, 226 patrick g cam, cts-vr lifters and ls2 lifter trays(come on they add some power....maybe). i was also able to run 504 at the tires with more stuff i'm to tired to type, but the point is at the rear tire and with higher compression. Your talking about running more power then me with less compression and about 4% more drivetrain loss. I'm not saying it can't be done, because i didn't think a truck intake and 78mm tb would pull 465 at the rears, but i would be curious as to the parts your picking and compression. everything i said is just my small opinion based on what i have experianced and learned from hands on and research and talking to guys like zippy/ray/kevin over the years. Take it for what you want. I did not have time to proof read..i hope it isn't to bad Edited October 13, 2012 by shadowsniper3006 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Awesome Brad, just awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_aSSet Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Awesome Brad, just awesome. agreed, VERY informative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akslowroller Posted October 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 WTf. Shadowsnipers post says no content when I try and view it. I would like to know what was informative. FML! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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