The Debate begins.

[kaotik1]

I know it brought up alot of heat last time, but here it is again. This time it was in Time magazine.

 

EDR's ( black boxes)

[04CHASE]

thats what hp tuners is for!!

[kaotik1]

You can disable the entire airbag system with HPT? I dont belive you can stop the data recorder with HPT.

[04CHASE]

do we have one??, id like to look at what it says

[kaotik1]

Yes we do. Under the passenger seat, the box is actually silver. I don't think that just anyone can obtain the software to read the box, only certian officals, and municipals.

 

This is why the debate

 

1. you don't know you have it, why can courts use it. Can't use wire taps.

 

2. They are only checked in a fatal accident.

 

3. I guess if you have nothing to hide, then why not make it public access.

 

But the way I look at it, is there are days I just want to drive. I know this weekend I went over 100mph more than once, should I be in jail for it? How many of us drive faster than say 70mph on the highway, just to maintain traffic speeds?

[Stitches040]

Yes we do. Under the passenger seat, the box is actually silver.  I don't think that just anyone can obtain the software to read the box, only certian officals, and municipals.

 

This is why the debate

 

1. you don't know you have it, why can courts use it. Can't use wire taps.

 

2. They are only checked in a fatal accident.

 

3. I guess if you have nothing to hide, then why not make it public access.

 

But the way I look at it, is there are days I just want to drive. I know this weekend I went over 100mph more than once, should I be in jail for it? How many of us drive faster than say 70mph on the highway, just to maintain traffic speeds?

 

In Mass. You need a Warrant to access the information. This is commonly done for all Fatal accidents, or accidents resulting in serious bodily injury.

 

As for your weekend Speed-Fest ... it constantly records over itself for the last 15-20 seconds, until the airbag system is activated. Do we all speed??? Yes ... But ask yourself, at what speed does your actions (by means of speeding) become negligent?? Especially in the case of an accident.

 

So ... again, you just have to ask yourself, as the story you posted goes ... If it were members of YOUR family in that "Red Jeep", wouldn't you like to know that important piece of information??? There is a huge difference between 55mph and 139mph. It's called Negligence ....

 

 

But as for the Black Box itself.... Most states deem driving as a Priviledge, not a Right. Therefore, with technology advancements on the rise ... Things like this will become more commonplace. Thus in order for states to recieve certian funding and grants from the Government under all of the Highway Safety Acts ... They (The Gov. and State Gov.) will require them.

[AJSmyth]

[kaotik1]

Yes we do. Under the passenger seat, the box is actually silver.  I don't think that just anyone can obtain the software to read the box, only certian officals, and municipals.

 

This is why the debate

 

1. you don't know you have it, why can courts use it. Can't use wire taps.

 

2. They are only checked in a fatal accident.

 

3. I guess if you have nothing to hide, then why not make it public access.

 

But the way I look at it, is there are days I just want to drive. I know this weekend I went over 100mph more than once, should I be in jail for it? How many of us drive faster than say 70mph on the highway, just to maintain traffic speeds?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In Mass. You need a Warrant to access the information. This is commonly done for all Fatal accidents, or accidents resulting in serious bodily injury.

 

As for your weekend Speed-Fest ... it constantly records over itself for the last 15-20 seconds, until the airbag system is activated. Do we all speed??? Yes ... But ask yourself, at what speed does your actions (by means of speeding) become negligent?? Especially in the case of an accident.

 

So ... again, you just have to ask yourself, as the story you posted goes ... If it were members of YOUR family in that "Red Jeep", wouldn't you like to know that important piece of information??? There is a huge difference between 55mph and 139mph. It's called Negligence ....

 

 

But as for the Black Box itself.... Most states deem driving as a Priviledge, not a Right. Therefore, with technology advancements on the rise ... Thing like this will become more commonplace. Thus in order for states to recieve certian funding and grants from the Government under all of the Highway Safety Acts ... They (The Gov. and State Gov.) will require them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like I said, this is a heated topic. It goes both ways.

[misterp]

...I know this weekend I went over 100mph more than once, should I be in jail for it? ...

I have no issue with anyone driving triple-digit speeds provided the situation, vehicle, and driver are conducive to it. I am not encouraging speeding, we all know most persons are doing this already; We The People choose to drive faster than elected officials choose to permit. If you make all your trips safe ones, driven in a manner that is reasonable and prudent, then you are a good driver in my book. OTOH weaving through traffic at 20-over, or speeding inside city limits, or racing through the canyons, or tailgating, or etc is a dumbass move and you'll probably help the gene pool on the whole if you do a faithful James Dean impression on some remote road; the laws of physics cannot be broken, there is no excuse for reckless driving and/or poor judgement and the pain/death that comes with it.

 

... But ask yourself, at what speed does your actions (by means of speeding) become negligent?? Especially in the case of an accident.

ANY speed. I believe in mutual negligence, that is all accidents happen because *both* drivers were negligent - i.e. the actions of either could have prevented the collision, the wreck occurs because both fail to act (through focusing or maintaining more space or slowing or etc) to avoid said incident. A collision at any speed shows negligence in driving by both parties, they were ignoring/misjudging the developing situation.

 

The Debate begins.

My slant on the data recorders: if you find yourself either the 'cause' or 'victim' of a serious collision the *last* thing that's going to matter is the retreival of 'incriminating EDR data'. Look at the reality of the situation folks, by the time the wreck has begun it's already too late, the damage is done and the scene is littered with so much evidence that even without any EDR the traffic investigators will still piece the whole scenario together by eyeball in a few minutes (duh!); the data recorder just helps them do it with iron-clad certainty instead of 98% certainty. Removing the data recorder from the vehicle does not gain you much IMO; I know that black box or not I'm going to be held legally/financially accountable for my actions, whatever those actions may be.

 

The whole discussion here has little to do with "having anything to hide" IMO. It has everything to do with taking responsibility for your actions. Just never do anything in your life that you aren't willing to take FULL responsibility for. No one of us lives alone on this planet, every action we take will affect others, especially driving without consideration for other motorists, our vehicle, or the immediate surroundings/weather.

 

Mr. P.

 

edit - then again, I am the guy with SSPEDN on his license plates...

[Stitches040]

The whole discussion here has little to do with "having anything to hide" IMO.  It has everything to do with taking responsibility for your actions.  Just never do anything in your life that you aren't willing to take FULL responsibility for.  No one of us lives alone on this planet, every action we take will affect others, especially driving without consideration for other motorists, our vehicle, or the immediate surroundings/weather.

 

Nicely put Mr. P ...

[Holty]

can the EDR we have be disabled or taken out?

[dcairns]

The whole discussion here has little to do with "having anything to hide" IMO.  It has everything to do with taking responsibility for your actions.  Just never do anything in your life that you aren't willing to take FULL responsibility for.  No one of us lives alone on this planet, every action we take will affect others, especially driving without consideration for other motorists, our vehicle, or the immediate surroundings/weather.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nicely put Mr. P ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the other hand...

 

How would we like to have our every action behind the wheel monitored and subject to legal limits? Safer? perhaps. Fun? no. The technology may not be there yet, but you can bet that it will be sooner than we like. I am not anxious to have my insurance company and city, county, state and federal agencies looking over my shoulder as I drive. Getting tickets for exceeding acceleration limits, excessive cornering speed or just plain speeding, automatically, every time you do so, is not a pleasant thought. May as well trade the SS in for a Prius.

[misterp]

...How would we like to have our every action behind the wheel monitored and subject to legal limits?...

That's been attempted before, it was called FACISM. I guess I did not make my opinion clear - I am not against the EDR devices or technologies specifically, but the idea of a federal mandate allowing law enforcement to review our driving habits without proper cause is very alarming (I have no problem with law enforcement reviewing my driving habits if there is due cause).

 

Think of it this way - just because you buy a Geo, Camaro, or Ferarri does that mean you are exhibiting the intent to violate the law? Same question again - just because you are buying a radar detector does the mere fact that you posess one exhibit the intent to break the speed limit? My point is, the law needs to assume people are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

 

I am agreeing with you - facist trends in lawmaking (like this) are upsetting. I think the EDR stuff has its place provided due process is maintained. If due process cannot be guaranteed then we have much larger problems in our country than little black boxes. We need to be alarmed over developments in our lawmaking, not developments in our technology. We should be plotting how to change the wrongful legislation instead of how we're going to rip the f'er out of the car.

 

Mr. P.

[zippy]

Could you imagine how guilty you'd look in court if you did commit a driving offense big enough for them to allow the box's info to be checked just to find out you'd already removed it... I agree, I'm fine with the box as long as the law stays as is so that they can't just check it for no apparent reason. I've been sent out with someone to read a box before and trust me they don't allow that information to be presented in court without a damn good reason.

[packjh]

can you just rip this thing out and still drive normally