broke1
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Posts posted by broke1
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FYI,headers and tune dont raise the redline of any engine....camshafts and intake manifolds do.Sorry,but thats just bad info saying tune and headers raise the power band,esp over 500rpm.
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A stock Ls1 cam doesnt make power past 5700rpm in a Lq9.
Or did GM have it wrong in rating the LQ9 at 345hp@5200 rpm???Are you REALLY going to argue with what GM says????Come on....
Also.according to the MANY dyno pulls in the book,How to build High Performance Chevy ls1/Ls6 V8's,all the dyno pulls show peak HP at 5100rpm for the Lq9 and Lq4's.Were they wrong as well???
ANd those were runs without accesorys which if your theory on rasing the power band with headers/tune were true,then so would testing without any of the accessorys.But it doesnt....
Im just trying to save some people money....spend yours however you want.
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So is your Opinion an american opinion or chinese???? And who cares either way. It's not your money so they can spend it how they like. You probably should get rid of your truck and go buy a Toyota and before you do YOU should find out how to become a spokes person for china!!!!!
After buying 2 brand new 2010 Escalade EXT's on the same day and being treated like shit by GM for clear rust issues on 1 truck,I hate American manufacturers and there attitude they make no mistakes....
And my German made Mercedes e55 with stock exhaust and $2500 in mods that runs 10.90's on drag radials tells me all I need to know about foreign cars,they kill most American cars in performance.My friend with his new CTS-V with alot more mods would agree that foreign cars are better.
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What didn't you understand by my post? IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU DO, PM ME SO WE CAN DISCUSS IT LIKE MEN. Instead you continue acting like a tough guy calling out everyone who decides to post their OPINION in this thread, that's right, OPINION, which I will repeat myself again and remind you that I am entitled to my OPINION just like anyone else here. I forgot that you are the ultimate authority on modding vehicles, that you have spent millions and know everything, and the rest of us are just a bunch dopes know absolutely nothing. You do not know me, know what I have done over the years, or know what I know......
I am done with this thread.........
How am I acting like a tough guy Mr know it all???You said its a myth SS headers dont need coated and stated it as FACT,not me.Im sorry your panties are in a bunch because you were proven wrong.
What do we need to discuss like men??I know you dont know shit and are just talking out of your ass.....
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As Krambo pointed out(he must not have read the article)the reason for the 5700rpm pulls is they are using the stock LS1 cam that comes in the LQ9,not an aftermarket piece.
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Patrick G makes one very good argument for the FAST intake - that is they are a consistent product, whereas the hand-ported intakes depending on the work done could be a world-beater, so-so, same-as-stock, or total looser; each one must be verified on the dyno or at the track, with the FAST products you know what you're getting when you bolt it onto the motor, albeit for $600 more...
Mr. P.
Thats true but if you use a LS2portworks intake,its a known quality,not like others I see.I stand by my staement,FAST intake is a waste of money for those using a LS2portworks truck manifold.
I really dont care if you waste your money on a FAST.When a heavier truck with a stock intake smokes you,you were told.
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No, I feel Mr.P mad a very good point. With the data you supplied, the overall gains would indicate a very comparable E.T. in this case with a 6500 shift point. Only one true way to find out
Nobody is knocking the stock ported intake, I in fact think it is a great alternative and bang for the buck is unmatched. Tuning is an amazing tool and I would love to see the data after a non-biased tuner gets ahold of the comparison.
I read the article and unless I missed it (please correct me if you see differently as I really skimmed over it), all dyno pulls were to 5700RPM???? what the hell is that? Talk about adding bias info.
While we are on the subject of FAST vs ported stock intakes, here is a very strait forward dyno comparison of a ported Ls3 intake to a stock FAST 102 manifold with OPTIMUM tuning for each on a bolt on 6.0L. Interesting results.
Did you read its a stock cam??Thats why the 5700rpm pulls....
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broke1, I merely stated my thoughts and opinions on the topic, which I am entitled to just like anyone else. If you have a problem with that, PM me so we can discuss it like gentlemen........
Ill quote you so theres no misunderstanding here ,you said "SS headers not needing coated is a myth" You are staing that as a FACT by saying that SS headers need to be coated when they most certainily DO NOT.There are alot more people with non coated SS headers than people with coated SS headers,THATS A FACT!!
Bare SS does not "pit" and it certainily doesnt bleed off heat quicly either.WTH are you getting this bad information???Seriously,whatever "internet guru" told you that shit needs to stop spreading bad info.
Only thing true in your mostly wrong statement is that it does indeed turn bluish after time but thats it.
Just admit that you tryed to come off like you knew what you were talking about and got told by someone who wasnt stupid enough to buy what you were selling.Some one who see your high post count and think you might actually know what your talking about and waste precious money on somthing they need about as much as a TB spacer.
Ill tell you whats certainly not a myth,PEOPLE WITH HIGH INTERNET POST COUNTS USUALLY ARE TALKING OUT OF THERE ASS!!
Sorry to call you out fireman,I am certain you are just repeating what you have seen others post.....
And as far as buying in the USA,id be glad too if companys werent so damn GREEDY.It costs less than $400 to make a set of SS long tubes and to ask what they do,they deserve to lose the business.How do I know how much it costs??I have had headers made before in small runs for Buicks,and those are SMALL runs of 10 sets or less.Not MANY sets like the Dynatechs or others.
Plus,in case most of you werent aware,its AMERICAN COMPANYS SELLING 99.9% of the CHINA headers so Americans are indeed making $ and Uncle Sam is getting his tax revenue.Shame on yall for being so closed mind and prejudiced.Can we go linch a negro next???My apologies to any black men,I certainily meant nothing bad,just trying to show why being prejudice against anyone is dumb as ****.
Also,my LPP headers are a Pacesetter knock off except in SS and they have 3" collectors,not 2.5".
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Im running the OBX's, not had any issues with them. I do wish i would of sent them out for coating tho. I've talked to people that have had both and all say that for the price the OBX's are made from a better quality steel, welds are better and a lot cheaper. I like mine but its up to you, mine cost $329 shipped to the door vs $1000+. With the money you save you can get additional mods. BTW use the factory exhaust manifolds and you dont have to worry about leaks.
So you would agree that the statement of "you get what you pay for" is entirely wrong???
Like I said,you guys knocking the Chinese stuff have probably never used it.
Also new flash because some of you apparently dont know why its called STAINELSS STEEL IS BECAUSE IT DOESNT RUST.
Getting SS headers coated for 'rust protection" is like wearing a rain coat and carrying an umbrella in your house on a rainy day so you dont get wet.
And ill bet you boys that have said "I got mine coated" didnt even cough up the $800+ to get the good stuff.Tell me how that cheap coating holds up after 5 years.
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For those without MS-Excel, I attached a graph of these numbers.
I know which manifold *I* would go racing with!
Mr. P.
Its not a LS2 intake,its a TRUCK intake used on the 2007 up 6.0's and 6.2's.
And again,remember,no tuning was done with the truck manifold,it was bolted on the engine with the same tune as the FAST.Like I said,read the other thread I posted from Hot Rod.
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I would bet my left nut that with tuning,the ported truck manifold would SLAUGHTER the FAST intake in every bit of the power band and make even MORE than 11 more HP at peak(we cant even really compare peak #'s since both were still gaining hp at the 6500rpm dyno cut off though so you both make a moot point)
Remember,no tuning was done what so ever from the FAST to the truck manifold.And according to the tuners that everyone uses(except me,I use SCT because I like having multiple tunes at my finger tips)when swapping intakes,a retune needs to be done.
And even if it was fully tuned and they were that close,itd still be a waste of money when they are so close in performance with one carrying a $600 more price tag.
Look at the article from the the Dec 10 Hotrod I posted,even more proof for the non beleivers.Me???Im glad I didnt listen to the experts and just buy a FAST and think it was the greatest....
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http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0710_6l_ls_series_small_block/index.html
Read the 2nd page at the bottom.Even the Ls2 manifold with 90mm tb lost 8hp/11tq compared to the 99-06 truck manifold.
If you ever hear another internet guru say truck manifolds are "junk" or need replaced to make "good" hp,just bitch slap em!!!lol Seriously though,know theyre an idiot just repeating what theyve heard!!!
The more proof I see,a well ported truck manifold is really the way to go!!!!
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Kind of misleading saying you gained XX HP just by bolting on the FAST when you also deleted another restriction aka the mass air flow meter.
Im no tuner myself but ive seen many tuners say 10-20hp at the wheels going to speed density.....Im sure youve tuned enough of them to know Charlie,how much of a gain from going speed density?Just average from what youve seen?
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Thanks.I just dont want guys to waste money when there is a better option.Esp for the sneaky factor because all the "real" LS racers on the internet know truck intakes suck
Goes to show how you should never take what you read on the net as the 100% truth.Ill bet you hundreds,if not thousands of LS guys have said how bad the truck intakes are for power production and they must be swapped out for any performance engine....and im sure some will even call BS and say I made all these #'s up,probably because they wasted $$ on a FAST intake trying to make more power.IMO,the best reason to replace the stock truck intake isnt for power production,its for looks because we all know the truck intakes are butt ugly!!!!So I do think the FAST intakes are worth $600 more than a ported truck stocker but just because they look better.
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I had the dyno #'s spread out a bit farther to make it easier to read but for some reason they bunched together.I even tried editing and it bunched them back together again!!!Sorry if its hard to read the #'s.Ill still work on trying to get them scanned and you can see the fuel consumption rates as well...
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Stock FAST LS3 intake(for Corvettes and Camaro's) on a LME built 9.5:1 408,TEA CNC L92 heads,23x/24x,.62x lift cam
TQ HP
3500 447.1 298.0
3600 449.1 307.8
3700 447.7 315.4
3800 448.2 324.3
3900 454.0 337.2
4000 461.9 351.8
4100 467.1 364.7
4200 465.9 372.6
4300 470.7 385.4
4400 468.5 392.5
4500 471.8 404.2
4600 476.5 417.4
4700 475.9 425.8
4800 482.7 441.1
4900 480.4 448.2
5000 482.4 459.3
5100 487.8 473.6
5200 500.3 495.4
5300 494.1 498.6
5400 491.9 505.7
5500 496.6 520.1
5600 492.2 524.8
5700 487.0 528.5
5800 484.7 535.3
5900 479.5 538.7
6000 474.2 541.8
6100 467.5 543.0
6200 456.3 538.6
6300 448.3 537.8
6400 446.1 543.6
6500 442.7 547.8
Same as above except ls2portworks.com ported L92 truck intake,no tuning done,just swapped the FAST LS3 for the Ls2portworks.com truck intake.
TQ HP
3400 448.8 290.5
3500 447.5 298.2
3600 447.3 306.6
3700 450.6 317.5
3800 452.4 327.4
3900 459.5 341.2
4000 456.4 347.6
4100 456.4 356.3
4200 462.2 369.6
4300 461.4 377.8
4400 468.1 392.1
4500 473.6 405.8
4600 475.2 416.2
4700 477.5 427.3
4800 478.6 437.4
4900 478.8 446.7
5000 481.6 458.5
5100 486.7 472.6
5200 487.3 482.4
5300 489.6 494.0
5400 489.6 503.4
5500 493.9 517.2
5600 487.2 519.5
5700 484.7 526.0
5800 481.0 531.2
5900 477.2 536.1
6000 469.2 536.0
6100 466.2 541.4
6200 458.2 540.9
6300 458.6 550.1
6400 457.6 557.6
6500 450.8 558.0
Both intakes used the same 65# injectors and 92mm FAST throttle body.Pulls were only made to 6500 because this is a brand new engine after all.
I expected the ported truck intake would come close to the FAST LS3 intake but no one expected it would actually beat the FAST in power production.And while making less tq too.Throw out the myth that a truck intake will make less hp but more TQ.
Cost of the ported truck intake is around $400 vs $1000 for the FAST.Those of you with cathedral port heads can use the 07 up TBSS style intake and expect similar gains I would think.Plus you can save around $600 to put towards more mods!!lol
My complete engine combo consists of:
Stage 3 TEA 68cc L92 heads with hollow intake valves,inconel exhaust,upgraded platinum dual springs
LS2 Portworks ported L92 truck intake with ported 90mm tb and 65# injectors
ARP assembly bolt kit
ARP crank,cam,and cam retainer bolts
ARP main studs and side bolts
ARP head studs
All GM gaskets,seals and grommets except Cometic HG's
Melling HV oil pump blueprinted by LME
stock L92 rockers with Harland Sharp upgraded trunions
custom ground Comp cam by FT Perfromance,www.ftperformance.com
LS7 roller lifters
OEM truck oil pan,front/rear covers,valley cover,windage tray,valve covers,all powder coated
ATI Super Dampner for trucks w/ 10% underdrive AC
CSR billet flexplate
All new GM sensors
High flow water pump
SLP 160 stat
408 cu. in. short block with all new parts consisting of:
Balanced, blue printed and assembled by LME
GM 6.0L Iron block
Callies 4340 4.00" crankshaft w/indexed & trued journals
Callies 6.125" H beam rods w/ARP 2000 7/16" bolts
Wiseco 4.030" forged pistons w/anti friction coating & tool steel wrist pins
NPR stainless chrome rings,.047 .047 3mm rings for reduced friction & high heat applications,
Clevite MS2199H main brgs
Clevite CB663 H rod brgs
DuraBond cam brgs, all oil galley plugs & dowel pins
Assembled long block by LME including: degree'd cam, checking piston to valve clearance,
adjust valve train geometry & lifter pre load, install oil pump & heads
Roll master double roller timing set w/ torington bearing & nitrided gears.
Manley 1 piece chromoly push rods 7.4xx" x 5/16 x .080" wall
Backing it all up for the time being is a Extreme Automatics 4l65e with billet input and output and a 10.5" PI multi disk 3200 stall.I have a 4l80, cross member,and transfer case input shaft ready to go,just want to see how far we can take the 4l65e before swapping transmissions.
Tuning is done via SCT X3 loaded with custom tunes via Henson Performance,www.hensonperformance.com. The SCT can be loaded with up to 3 custom tunes(not generic) Owning Buick Grand Nationals for the last 15 years,I have learned that race gas tunes can be worth over 100rwhp vs a regualr 93 tune.Thats way to much HP to leave on the table for me.....
The reason for the low 9.5:1 compression ratio is I will be turbocharging this engine in the coming months with a KB Racing 88mm turbo kit.My goal with the truck is to have a streetable 1000+hp at the wheels.Not in a Silverado SS but its heavier big brother,the Escalade EXT.They are basically the same drivetrains and diffs with the only difference being the Escalade runs a BW 4481 transfer case that has 40 front/60 rear power distribution vs the NV 149 having 36 front/64 rear.I might swap to a NV 149 if I can find one at a good enough deal just for the conveinence of being able to pull the front shaft to dyno since you cant do that with the BW 4481.Sorry for the LOOOOOOONG post,alot of the info I just copied and pasted from my yahoo notepad.
LME= Late Model Engines www.latemodelengines.com
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The previous dyno numbers were with the "stock" to his truck 78mm intake manifold.
So that means the stock 99-06 truck intake was used?Not the TBSS style intake?
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Nice gains....
Was the stock truck intake the one used on the 99-06 models or the TBSS style thats used on the 07 up 4.8's and 5.3's?
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Yes it can.It will flow more lph with a hot wire kit though.They are pretty cheap,$40-$60 or you can make your own for $10.
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Old Buick Grand National trick....glad to see LS guys have caught on in the last few years.You can buy them from Caspers or Racetronix.
I have never installed a Walbro pump in one of these trucks so I dont know how it compares to the Denso but the Denso doesnt require much trimming of the bucket at all.
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Tre performance makes a replica style walbro 255 with a 1 year warranty. Inexpensive too!
I wouldnt buy a knock off,although anything has to be better than crapola Walbro.
The Denso you are looking for is,Denso 195180-1020 Supra TT fuel pump,there are part #'s that suceed that and alos Toyota part #'s as its an OEM pump,READ RELIABLE AS HELL!!
.They can be had on ebay for roughly $160+.Flows roughly 280lph and over 300lph with a hot wire kit.Ditch the inline,dont use a Walbro,use a Denso and you will never have another fuel pump problem again.
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Thanks, the downpipe is actually 4", but that should be more than adequate.
This is priced at basically $500 off a brand new kit so I can move it, and the hot side is already wrapped for you!
I really wanted a t6 and SS but what the hell.....Im interested,am less than 45 minutes away, and have brand new $100 bills but you are going to have to come down on the price,I can get it from Kyle for just a tad more than that and itd be t6 flange and SS....Ill give you $3500 for it.Sorry,but no one is going to pay full price in this economy,just not going to happen....
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those almost seem to good to be true... im looking for some quality, like i said i dont wanna deal with no leaks. do you know of anyone running those?
Trust me when I say the only thing you are going to feel is a lighter pocket buying real Dynatechs.China rip offs are just as good craftsmanship wise(probably even have better welds)as any American made product.I have seen ALOT of both.
Also,dont know if many know or want to beleive but many USA companys are selling China stuff as made in the USA(like LPP)Easy enough to tell,if its polished stainless steel or alum,its made in China.Pretty much all intercoolers being sold in aftermarket turbo kits are even made in China now.....
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There are a few things I would like to clear up here....first, I want you to remember the saying "you get what you pay for", i'll leave it at that. Second, saying that stainless headers do not need to be coated is a myth. While in fact they will survive just fine uncoated, there are some good reasons to coat stainless headers. If you drive your vehicle year round, bare stainless will pit in time when exposed to road dirt, sand, and salt; coating prevents this and helps your headers look great for a long time. Bare stainless will take on a blueish color after a few heat cycles, many people do not like this, so coating them will keep your engine bay looking nice. The big issue is heat loss.....bare stainless tends to bleed heat off rapidly, and we all know that when it comes to headers that the hotter they get, the better the exhaust will flow. Coating your headers will help keep the heat inside, and out of your engine bay, lowering underhood temps. Lastly, don't be fooled about "header paint", this is a cheap alternative to coating your headers, but will not hold up in the long run....
I have had Dynatechs on my SS for roughly 3 years now, I had them coated right after buying the kit, I can't say enough about them. Yes they are pricey, but they are a proven performer on these trucks...
"You get what you pay for" LOL If that makes you feel better for paying $1200+ for what I can get for $250,keep telling yourself that.Me,I have bought enough hot rod parts to know what is and what isnt quality and the knock offs of American products by the Chinese is just as good as products made in America as far as craftsmanship.They werent a few years ago but quality control has come a LONG way in the last few years.And I have alot more miles on my Chinese than you have on your Dynatechs.Also another point,HAVE YOU PERSONALLY USED CHINA KNOCK OFF HEADERS OR JUST QUOTING SOMTHING YOU READ?I drive year round and have many miles on mine and so do others and they are holding up just fine but thanks.
Coating on SS headers???I have owned Buick Grand Nationals(plural,ive owned a few and still own 2)for almost 17 years and you better go tell them they need there headers coated(NOT) and they will pit and corrode if not(and wait to be laughed out of the room)Is it best?Yep,for a TURBO vehicle that has high under hood heat.Would you notice anything on your 450hp NA LSx vehicle?NOPE.If you are going for every last HP on your race car and have the $600+ to put a QUALITY coating on your headers,GO FOR IT!!Only other reason its worth it is to fight under hood temps.Unless its high $$ coating with life time no questions asked coating,save your money and sleep well at night knowing you didnt fall for the hype.
And what experience do I have in hot rodding?1 500whp Buick Grand National street car that I have personally frame off restored,every aftermarket part you could put on a GN,non coated SS ATR headers,1 Buick Grand National race car that I have also frame off restored,also every aftermarket part and then some,FAST XFI,NLR AMS 1000 BSTC,Turbonetics GTK1000,HPC coated ATR 4 bolts,4" down pipe,will easily make 700+whp wih stock block v6,1 2005 Mercedes E55,custom dyno tuning,180 pulley,heat exchanger,ported blower housing and TB,makes 570whp/650tq,STOCK EXHAUST,runs 10's,1999 Dodge Ram diesel,p pump,twin turbo,nitrous,water/meth,should make 800+whp,2005 Escalade EXT,SS China headers,JBA exhaust,SCT tune(yea,I have 3 tunes vs your 1),LME iron 408 with CNC LS3 heads waiting to be installed,and I am going to buy a 88mm KB Racing turbo kit when I can afford it,shooting for 1000hp to all 4 wheels.
Waste your money or spend it wisely is up to you,you can do alot more with your funds if you dont fall for the hype on alot of parts.Every 1 has an opinion and these are just some of mine.Ill tell you though,a person who is wise with there money does not spend 5x more on the same product with a different name.Please dont take anything I have said as an insult,we all have to learn somtime!I have probably spent close to a million dollars "learning" on vehicles and could have saved alot of it by being a wiser consumer.
Fast Ls3 Intake Vs Ported L92 Truck Intake
in Bolt On Performance
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Isnt it against the rules to call someone a son of a bitch???Yep,just read the rules and it sure is....
How am I cocky,because I have proof to back up what im saying,not just putting in my 2 cents???
Mods,please erase this whole thread because apparently these people cant appreciate good info thats backled up with proof.