SS_bnoon_SS Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 With an octane rating of 100-105 for E85 ethanol, what would need to be changed to run it in an SSS? Timing tables could jump a bit, and you could probably go a bit leaner on cruise modes... Has anyone been doing anything with E85 yet? It's the cheapest gas in Iowa because our taxes are lowest on ethanol blends since it's a renewable Iowa resourse (corn). Stations are starting to carry it more and more... Even mid grade 89-90 octane 15% ethanol is cheaper than 87 octane here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I've been wondering the same thing, but leaning more towards E50 rather than E85. Sure you could increase timing but I think the best option would be to increase compression ratio, maybe swap on a set of ported LS1 heads? I know that fuel delivery will have to be increased about 30% ballpark across the board, so new fuel pump, larger lines, larger injectors. The fuel tank might be too small, cruising distance will take a hit by the same amount so go from a 24-gal tank to 32 gal? Another question is can the catalytic converters take the high octane? High octane gasoline will burn-out cats... Lots to think about. In the end I don't think that running E85 will be cheaper per mile than gasoline, probalby nearly the same operating expenses per mile but it will be a lot more environmentally and politically friendly. Mr. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmalibuss Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Running E-85 will cost you more. The only benefit is it's good for the environment. Think about it ethanol is alcohol and it generally takes twice as much alcohol to make the air:fuel ratio correct and here is California anyways it's not easy to find a station that has it and I have never even seen one. I have heard that it is about the same if not higher in price than premium. So getting worse gas milage and paying more sounds worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersub Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Thats funny!I never even bothered to lok into E85 before didn't even know the octane rating before this post my sub is equiped for E85 but never used it.Guess its to late now i dont think i should use it w/the radix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Running E-85 will cost you more. The only benefit is it's good for the environment. Think about it ethanol is alcohol and it generally takes twice as much alcohol to make the air:fuel ratio correct and here is California anyways it's not easy to find a station that has it and I have never even seen one. I have heard that it is about the same if not higher in price than premium.So getting worse gas milage and paying more sounds worthless. I mostly agree, I mean when you actually figure the running/operating costs per mile the ethanol blends do not fare well. If someone however figures out how to make ethanol a lot more cheaply (which may well be in the works according to rumors) then most mainstream consumers will switch over as it will be cheaper than petroleum per mile. I do hope that this would help those of us still running on petroleum since demand should fall and hopefully stabilize the price of premium fuel a bit. In theory Mr. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmalibuss Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Running E-85 will cost you more. The only benefit is it's good for the environment. Think about it ethanol is alcohol and it generally takes twice as much alcohol to make the air:fuel ratio correct and here is California anyways it's not easy to find a station that has it and I have never even seen one. I have heard that it is about the same if not higher in price than premium.So getting worse gas milage and paying more sounds worthless. I mostly agree, I mean when you actually figure the running/operating costs per mile the ethanol blends do not fare well. If someone however figures out how to make ethanol a lot more cheaply (which may well be in the works according to rumors) then most mainstream consumers will switch over as it will be cheaper than petroleum per mile. I do hope that this would help those of us still running on petroleum since demand should fall and hopefully stabilize the price of premium fuel a bit. In theory Mr. P. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> GM just made the vehicles E-85 compatible so the hippies won't destroy anymore trucks and suv's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_bnoon_SS Posted May 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Running E-85 will cost you more. The only benefit is it's good for the environment. Think about it ethanol is alcohol and it generally takes twice as much alcohol to make the air:fuel ratio correct and here is California anyways it's not easy to find a station that has it and I have never even seen one. I have heard that it is about the same if not higher in price than premium.So getting worse gas milage and paying more sounds worthless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It won't cost more here in Iowa. Mid grade Ethanol blend 89-90 octane is cheaper than 87 octane here, it's the cheapest of all of the choices! The E85 will get the same tax breaks since it's a renewable Iowa resource (actually several midwestern states sell mid grade 15% Ethanol blend cheaper than the 87 octane crap). The Ethanol blends cost you people out of the corn belt more because your state charges more for the taxes on that gas. By the way, find a station here: http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php There are only 4 listed in Cali, but tons more are coming everywhere! Guess its to late now i dont think i should use it w/the radix. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The higher octane would give you a better margin of saftey with boost. I'd run it if at all possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmalibuss Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Running E-85 will cost you more. The only benefit is it's good for the environment. Think about it ethanol is alcohol and it generally takes twice as much alcohol to make the air:fuel ratio correct and here is California anyways it's not easy to find a station that has it and I have never even seen one. I have heard that it is about the same if not higher in price than premium.So getting worse gas milage and paying more sounds worthless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It won't cost more here in Iowa. Mid grade Ethanol blend 89-90 octane is cheaper than 87 octane here, it's the cheapest of all of the choices! The E85 will get the same tax breaks since it's a renewable Iowa resource (actually several midwestern states sell mid grade 15% Ethanol blend cheaper than the 87 octane crap). The Ethanol blends cost you people out of the corn belt more because your state charges more for the taxes on that gas. By the way, find a station here: http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php There are only 4 listed in Cali, but tons more are coming everywhere! Guess its to late now i dont think i should use it w/the radix. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The higher octane would give you a better margin of saftey with boost. I'd run it if at all possible... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah it may be cheaper than 87 where you are but it's not going to change the fact that you will spend more in the long run because you mileage is going to go way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron's SS Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I agree that hopefully they lower the production cost on the E85, then people will switch over and maybe gasoline will stabilize. But I was shocked to see the difference in MPG from gas to E85. gas mileage Titan: Gas= 14/18 E85= 10/13 Dodge: Gas= 12/15 E85= 9/11 Silverado: Gas= 15/19 E85= 11/14 I still think the E85 is a good idea (remove some foreign dependancy) but they better find a way to make it real cheap or it will only raise our operating costs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I agree that hopefully they lower the production cost on the E85, then people will switch over and maybe gasoline will stabilize. But I was shocked to see the difference in MPG from gas to E85. gas mileage Titan: Gas= 14/18 E85= 10/13 Dodge: Gas= 12/15 E85= 9/11 Silverado: Gas= 15/19 E85= 11/14 I still think the E85 is a good idea (remove some foreign dependancy) but they better find a way to make it real cheap or it will only raise our operating costs... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, but in all fairness those engines aren't optimized for use with alcohol. If you are running 105 octane you can up the compression to something like 14:1 and it will probably get back enough efficiency to compete with gasoline on a $$$/mile operating cost basis (assuming they get ethanol refining costs in line). Mr. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN C5 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 FWIW, in MN E85 is 15-20% less than gas at the pump. Jonmalibuss there are far more benefits to using E85 than the environment. And even IF you were using more and paying more, IMHO its the only thing that will save hot rodding. Currently we use 80 million barrels of oil a day and the capacity available is only 81 million. With the mid East full of Islamic nutters and China and India coming into the 21st century gas will never be cheap again. Plus the economic benefits of growing fuel are not to be ignored. I've tune a few vehicles that use E85 exclusively and they perform very well. We are only a year or so away from Biomass ethanol fuel from grass, trees, weeds ect... When this stuff comes to market it may allow us to reduce the money we are currently spending to support terrorism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 I totally agree with MN C5 on this one. I have been up on all of this BioMass ethanol production since last summer. I feel that once this technology is proven on a commercial scale, it will make "gas" a thing of the past. I have been invested in a company called SunOpta for a while and have made a nice profit. I originally invested in them due to that I believe in their ethanol process even though they only invest a small percentage of their $$$ into the technology. Once thier technology is shown to the public and they show that they can produce ethanol cheaper than ANY other method in exsistance, watch out Middle East. This will be the future of combustion engines. Here is a link to the company for any investors out there: SunOpta ..Nice stock performance too They will have their first full scale plant in operation this year...making ethanol at 1/2 the price of their competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_bnoon_SS Posted May 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 I agree that hopefully they lower the production cost on the E85, then people will switch over and maybe gasoline will stabilize. But I was shocked to see the difference in MPG from gas to E85. gas mileage Titan: Gas= 14/18 E85= 10/13 Dodge: Gas= 12/15 E85= 9/11 Silverado: Gas= 15/19 E85= 11/14 I still think the E85 is a good idea (remove some foreign dependancy) but they better find a way to make it real cheap or it will only raise our operating costs... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let's use the Silverado listed... Today's local E85 price: $2.10 E85 to go 100 miles at 11 MPG = $19.10 E85 to go 100 miles at 14 MPG = $15 Today's premium price: $2.89 Gas to go 100 miles at 15 MPG = $19.27 Gas to go 100 miles at 19 MPG = $15.21 As E85 becomes more available, the price will go down. As production methods improve, the price will go down. I'm not saying we're going to see a buck a gallon or anything, but it is nice to have increasingly better options being forced out of the transportation industry in order to keep internal combustion alive. I don't know about you all, but I can't see myself driving an electric car any time within my lifetime... It would be kinda embarrassing to be going down the road making fart/motor noises as I speed up while remembering "this cool truck I used to have way back when..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 I agree that hopefully they lower the production cost on the E85, then people will switch over and maybe gasoline will stabilize. But I was shocked to see the difference in MPG from gas to E85. gas mileage Titan: Gas= 14/18 E85= 10/13 Dodge: Gas= 12/15 E85= 9/11 Silverado: Gas= 15/19 E85= 11/14 I still think the E85 is a good idea (remove some foreign dependancy) but they better find a way to make it real cheap or it will only raise our operating costs... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let's use the Silverado listed... Today's local E85 price: $2.10 E85 to go 100 miles at 11 MPG = $19.10 E85 to go 100 miles at 14 MPG = $15 Today's premium price: $2.89 Gas to go 100 miles at 15 MPG = $19.27 Gas to go 100 miles at 19 MPG = $15.21 As E85 becomes more available, the price will go down. As production methods improve, the price will go down. I'm not saying we're going to see a buck a gallon or anything, but it is nice to have increasingly better options being forced out of the transportation industry in order to keep internal combustion alive. I don't know about you all, but I can't see myself driving an electric car any time within my lifetime... It would be kinda embarrassing to be going down the road making fart/motor noises as I speed up while remembering "this cool truck I used to have way back when..." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup, that's exactly what I was expecting, the major oil companies will take advantage of the situation and purposely price E85 so it is on par with operating costs of a gasoline-powered vehicle. If you get a vehicle with an engine actually optimized for E85 (aggressive ignition timing + higher compression) then you will have cheaper running costs, as it's a more efficient engine. I agree we will not see "real life" prices fall, as the oil companies want that money to put into refinery/infrastructure/process development. But the best thing about this is that it is not hard for the common man to make their own still and E85, and that will force the oil companies and gas stations to not gouge consumers. And if you happen to live in an agricultural area you can make your own ethanol from animal manure and hay for *almost nothing*. I am such a huge proponent of this as it puts the power of making/refining fuel back into the hands of the common man, and that will have a major affect on market prices - the oil companies are going to have to compete with entrepreneurs. Mr. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_bnoon_SS Posted May 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Yeah, up until recently, E85 was actually quite a bit cheaper than it is now, and in some places it still is cheaper per mile to run. The "demand exceeding supply" is driving the price up on it actually. In other states where the E85 has to be driven into the holding stations, riding on dino burning trucks, the dino fuel costs are pushing E85 out of reach as a cost effective alternative. One danger of all of this ethanol push is the genetic mutations of the organisms (mainly yeasts) that turn straw/corn stalks/beans/grass/weeds/sugar cane/etc into ethanol is that something could get released into the food chain that we don't want there. In worst case, it could mutate the yeast into plant eating machines that could clear the whole world of vegetation in less than a decade. Wouldn't that be fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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