Jonmalibuss Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaBouy Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 (edited) Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... Edited October 4, 2006 by FlaBouy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGeorge Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 HPT shows 3 diffrent values for the speed limiter. 1 for fuel cutoff and 2 for ETC (anyone know why there are 2?) Mabey the Diablo programmer is missing one.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaker888 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is the insufficient fuel delivery caused by the programer or somthing that is seroiusly wrong with the motor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaBouy Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is the insufficient fuel delivery caused by the programer or somthing that is seroiusly wrong with the motor! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it were insufficient fuel delivery, the most common cause is Injector Duty Cycles higher than 100% (Injectors too small) or fuel pump not keeping up... I had to go to 60# injectors for this reason when the heads went on...my 42# 8.1L Marines were seeing 130% duty cycles..... I put on the 60# and now they are back in the 70% range up top... I flow just shy of 1000 cfm with the blower. My MAF max's at 12500 almost daily (65 lb/min). I run a returnless fuel system, so at this point the intank Walbro 255 lph pump is sufficient.... Hope this helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmalibuss Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you have the softwear from diablo you can do the same thing you can do with HPT trust me I have used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaker888 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you have the softwear from diablo you can do the same thing you can do with HPT trust me I have used it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was think of going to Pcm for less I called Brain the other day and he could tune for the new cam stall and Long tubes! Do u think that would be the better route to or just stay with the daiblo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaBouy Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 (edited) Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you have the softwear from diablo you can do the same thing you can do with HPT trust me I have used it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BS... I gave the Diablo up because of all the restrictions in the diablo... you do not have access to an unrestrictive tuning enviroment,... when I went to 60# injectors, heads, cam, and 1.86 rockers, the Diablo was incapble of handling the tuning changes... I have just looked to verify this on the Diablo site... They even confirm they limit you... This is cut right from their site... Timing Table 2000-4000rpm (+15/- 20%) Timing Table 4000-7000rpm (+15/- 20%) Fuel Table 2000-4000rpm (+/- 20%) Fuel Table 4000-7000rpm (+/- 20%) Idle (+ 500rpm / -300rpm) There are absolutely no limitations to the HP Tuners software..... Trust me, I used the Diablo for a year and have been tuning with HP Tuners for a year.... there is no comparison.....Enough said... Edited October 9, 2006 by FlaBouy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmalibuss Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you have the softwear from diablo you can do the same thing you can do with HPT trust me I have used it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BS... I gave the Diablo up because of all the restrictions in the diablo... you do not have access to an unrestrictive tuning enviroment,... when I went to 60# injectors, heads, cam, and 1.86 rockers, the Diablo was incapble of handling the tuning changes... I have just looked to verify this on the Diablo site... They even confirm they limit you... This is cut right from their site... Timing Table 2000-4000rpm (+15/- 20%) Timing Table 4000-7000rpm (+15/- 20%) Fuel Table 2000-4000rpm (+/- 20%) Fuel Table 4000-7000rpm (+/- 20%) Idle (+ 500rpm / -300rpm) There are absolutely no limitations to the HP Tuners software..... Trust me, I used the Diablo for a year and have been tuning with HP Tuners for a year.... there is no comparison.....Enough said... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You must not have the softwear we have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreySS Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 i beleive the 2wd have a lower speed limiter than the awd ss. i think the awd is like 108 and the 2wd is right around 100, are you able to remove or reset your limiter to a higher speed with the handlheld doo hicky? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HA HA HA!!! Handheld Doo Hickey!!! Just call Brian and be f'n done with it! Too many threads about handhelds vs. custom!!!! -K- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaBouy Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you have the softwear from diablo you can do the same thing you can do with HPT trust me I have used it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BS... I gave the Diablo up because of all the restrictions in the diablo... you do not have access to an unrestrictive tuning enviroment,... when I went to 60# injectors, heads, cam, and 1.86 rockers, the Diablo was incapble of handling the tuning changes... I have just looked to verify this on the Diablo site... They even confirm they limit you... This is cut right from their site... Timing Table 2000-4000rpm (+15/- 20%) Timing Table 4000-7000rpm (+15/- 20%) Fuel Table 2000-4000rpm (+/- 20%) Fuel Table 4000-7000rpm (+/- 20%) Idle (+ 500rpm / -300rpm) There are absolutely no limitations to the HP Tuners software..... Trust me, I used the Diablo for a year and have been tuning with HP Tuners for a year.... there is no comparison.....Enough said... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You must not have the softwear we have! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No... I have real software... I have HP Tuners.... BTW..that info from the diablo site... for a Chevy Silverado, SS, Tahoe, Avalanche, etc. etc. Here ya go, look yourself..... http://www.diablosport.com/index.php?modul...=display&pid=64 EDIT: had to go and look to make sure, but here is a for instance... My stock tune in the AV was running 11-12* timing at 105 kPA... I am now running 24* timing at 185 kPA with a 2 BAR MAP tuning with HP Tuners... I am unaware of any software that Diablo has that will tune above 105 kPA. The 2 BAR Speed density tune uses a VE table table that is 5kPA- 210kPA. Not sure Diablo can support that... even with a 1 Bar setup, the move to 24* timing from 12* timing is way beyond their +15%, don'tcha think..? And BTW, where do you plug in the input to the wideband on a predator..? or fire the window switch for Nitrous..? the HP TUner interface has 2 analog input/ 2 analog outputs. It also does real time tuning..... And BTW2, how do you replay your logs afterwards on that Diablo...... Edited October 10, 2006 by FlaBouy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmalibuss Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Why is this in the PCM Tuning section??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well Diablo isn't like everyother handheld if you get the softwear you can use it just like HPT. We use it for certain things here at work and it's pretty much just a transfer unit. We can read and write files just like HPT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not quite... I gave up my Diablo when I stated tuning my own with HP Tuners last year. I had to give up the diablo when I installed the blower.... Major differences between the two... On the speed limiter issue, GM set the speed limiter on my Av at 98 mph and the fuel cutoff is set to 6200 rpms on my Av. If it were fuel/rpm cutoff you would know it... it will buck like a bronco... don't ask me how I know that... let's just say the installation of a stall convertor needs tune tweaking at the shift points..... Tuning software will allow you to move this these settings... KR might pull enough timing for you to lose enough power to feel, but if you are seeing that much KR you have bigger issues, like insufficient fuel delivery at WOT.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you have the softwear from diablo you can do the same thing you can do with HPT trust me I have used it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BS... I gave the Diablo up because of all the restrictions in the diablo... you do not have access to an unrestrictive tuning enviroment,... when I went to 60# injectors, heads, cam, and 1.86 rockers, the Diablo was incapble of handling the tuning changes... I have just looked to verify this on the Diablo site... They even confirm they limit you... This is cut right from their site... Timing Table 2000-4000rpm (+15/- 20%) Timing Table 4000-7000rpm (+15/- 20%) Fuel Table 2000-4000rpm (+/- 20%) Fuel Table 4000-7000rpm (+/- 20%) Idle (+ 500rpm / -300rpm) There are absolutely no limitations to the HP Tuners software..... Trust me, I used the Diablo for a year and have been tuning with HP Tuners for a year.... there is no comparison.....Enough said... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You must not have the softwear we have! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No... I have real software... I have HP Tuners.... BTW..that info from the diablo site... for a Chevy Silverado, SS, Tahoe, Avalanche, etc. etc. Here ya go, look yourself..... http://www.diablosport.com/index.php?modul...=display&pid=64 EDIT: had to go and look to make sure, but here is a for instance... My stock tune in the AV was running 11-12* timing at 105 kPA... I am now running 24* timing at 185 kPA with a 2 BAR MAP tuning with HP Tuners... I am unaware of any software that Diablo has that will tune above 105 kPA. The 2 BAR Speed density tune uses a VE table table that is 5kPA- 210kPA. Not sure Diablo can support that... even with a 1 Bar setup, the move to 24* timing from 12* timing is way beyond their +15%, don'tcha think..? And BTW, where do you plug in the input to the wideband on a predator..? or fire the window switch for Nitrous..? the HP TUner interface has 2 analog input/ 2 analog outputs. It also does real time tuning..... And BTW2, how do you replay your logs afterwards on that Diablo...... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> buddy I use HPT on my own vehicles as well and have for over 3 years now so trust me I know all about HPT. I am just stating that the same can be had with the diablo if you have the correct softwear. Oh and about the wideband we have a dyno at work for all of the instrumentation that would ever be needed. We use anything we need to to get the final results. HPT doesn't have any Ford or dodge product out as of yet so we are stuck with what we can get for tuning softwear when it comes to ford and dodge. We just recently tunded an 06 f-150 with a magnuson supercharger on it and that worked out very well with the Diablo. And like I stated before if you have the correct softwear from Diablo you can make logs review them and make changes just like HPT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaBouy Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Not trying to argue.. You are trying to convey the Diablo can do everything the HP Tuners can.. It cannot... I have yet to hear you address the 2 BAR speed density tune and no software from Diablo is gonna get you there...Wait till that Magnuson outbreathes the MAF.... So I guess we just step away from this issue disagreeing... When you can show me a 2 BAR speed density tune on a blown application for a supercharger or turbo, then I will agree with you. And the wideband on your dyno does you no good out on the street under real world load conditions.... Peace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaker888 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Not trying to argue.. You are trying to convey the Diablo can do everything the HP Tuners can.. It cannot... I have yet to hear you address the 2 BAR speed density tune and no software from Diablo is gonna get you there...Wait till that Magnuson outbreathes the MAF.... So I guess we just step away from this issue disagreeing... When you can show me a 2 BAR speed density tune on a blown application for a supercharger or turbo, then I will agree with you. And the wideband on your dyno does you no good out on the street under real world load conditions.... Peace... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We are loosein what the ? of this post was really about and gettin a arguement! By the whay Jon how do u get that better software?Should I just get the tune from Brain? My other ? Flabouy What is a 2 BAR speed! Theres no need to argue were here tro help not Fight and Im tryin to learn shit! Cause im pretty new to this stuff! Thanks Guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaBouy Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) For my part, I am not trying to argue... I honestly mean that... I have used both products and I program industrial controls every single day, so I know what software is all about. So I will refrain from any further attempt to convey my experienced opinion that the Diablo cannot support the level of tuning that HP Tuners can. On the 2 Bar Speed Density issue... At some point when adding boost, you will exceed airflow that the MAF is capable of supporting. The stock MAF on our trucks are the largest in the industry for production vehicles, including the Z06 and other models. Not sure about the later 2007 models coming out. Our MAF is capable of reading up to about 62-65 lbs/min. It reads airflow by heating a filament in the MAF and when air flows across this filament, it is cooled. GM engineering has decided to try to keep this filament at the same temperature at all times, so when air flows across it, it requires an additional load to keep the filament in the same temp range. This increased electrical load in measured and converted to a frequency input to the PCM. So what you will see in the log is both a lb/min parameter and a frequency in (HZ). The MAF has a fail safe setting programmed in the tune that has a premise that if this frequency is exceeded, then the MAF has failed, and the tune will revert to the VE table to keep the engine safely running. The stock failsafe on most trucks is set to 12,500 HZ. Now, when you add FI, it is very easy to exceed the freq range established in the stock tune. Take for instance my centrifugal. I easily see 65 lb/min and max the MAF out abouve 12500 HZ. This is a problem since fueling is so important under WOT. Secondly, a stock tune has a VE table that has a scale of 15 kPA to 105 kPA. Without getting into a lot of theory, a NA motor usually will have about -20" HG or vacuum at idle. When spinning it on up, and the throttle blade goes WOT, the motor at that point is seeing atmospheric pressure. Since there is not a power adder creating boost, thats all it can make...in thoery... I know of some cammed cars making a little boost.... Anyway, idle vacuum is measure at around 30-35 kPA on a stock 5.3L and will usually make a run up to 103 kPA under WOT. The stock tune and PCM can handle this scale easily and is why GM engineers use the VE table scaled as such. 103 kPA it atmospehric pressure at sealevel, or there abouts... Now, here is where it gets dicey... Say you add a blower, or turbo,..... You now are creating boost... Most people measure this in PSI... I typically measure it in kPA. Since every 1 psi of boost is equivalent to 6.8 kpa, it is easy to see where my truck running the centrigal blower is easily seeing 185- 190 kPA under WOT conditions. I have logged this several times here of late. Now if I am generating that much boost, then how can the VE table possibly keep up. It can't..... What happens is after about 4000 rpm, your truck quits relying on fueling being determined by the VE table and rely's on the MAF for anything under WOT, or your PE threshold, which I set at about 90 kPA. When running under boost, the MAF is providing feedback for fueling, but hey, didn't I mention I am exceeding the MAF failsafe threshold..? and when you exceed that threshold, doesn't it revert to the VE table...? and if the VE table is only scaled to 105 kPA, how is it providing fueling at 190 kPA..? In steps the 2 BAR speed density OS. It does a lot of things not covered here, but the main two things it does is one: It doubles the VE table scale. You now can tune from 5 kPA - 210 kPA... and two: since you can tune fueling now in boost as well as vacuum, it does away with the MAF in it's entirety... Yes, that MAF you guys have been spending hundreds of dollars on to replace with Granatelli's, is now thrown in the garbage can.... Fueling is more precise, throttle response is better, and power is more consistent.... So in general layman's terms, that is a 2 BAR speed density tune.. Others will probably add to what I have forgotten, but this covers the meat of it... Oh, I just have to say it... supported by HP Tuners, EFI Live, Roadrunner, etc.. Edit: spelling errors due to lack of caffiene.... Edited October 11, 2006 by FlaBouy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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