mwalls54 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 the guns were bought legally. Ok you ban guns that just means there will be more on the black market which will be easier to get and untraceable. We are blaming guns now. How about the parents?? They are the ones that raised them. In todays world no one has time for anything and they give a kid a game and push him off in his room. They might talk to them a hour out of the day but thats it. Its sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2003SS Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 In todays world no one has time for anything and they give a kid a game and push him off in his room. They might talk to them a hour out of the day but thats it. Its sad. Nail on the head...dont forget we also now live in a world where parents tell their kids "Do as I say, not as I do..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogx Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 the guns were bought legally. Ok you ban guns that just means there will be more on the black market which will be easier to get and untraceable. We are blaming guns now. How about the parents?? They are the ones that raised them. In todays world no one has time for anything and they give a kid a game and push him off in his room. They might talk to them a hour out of the day but thats it. Its sad. Legally or illegally? All i seen in the news is that the police found two receipts for the purchase of those guns, I'm very much doubting that some guy selling guns and drugs on the streets is going to write out a receipt so if he did walk into a gun store or gun show and was able to purchase those weapons then yes IMO the rules need to be changed especially seeing he is not even from this country. Still unsure of what happened so i rather not comment to much until i know the facts unlike some european countries who like to open their fat mouth before even knowing the facts blaming American gun culture for a shooting that happened from a non American south Korean exchange student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2003SS Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 It doesnt add up for me either with the legal/illegal purchase. I'm sure we will know more soon. But...the media likes to put spin on things, the receipts they found more than likely were for ammunition, not guns. As most of you know, it is 100% illegal to sell a pistol to anyone under the age of 21 without a full background check. If it is private sale, the buyer must obtain a purchase permit from local law enforcement pedning a bakground check, then pruchase the weapon from the seller. If the seller does not obtain a copy of the purchase permit, they are committing a felony. Also, firearms can not be sold accross state lines except from FFL to FFL. The other thing that doesnt add up is that no legal gun dealer would sell two pistols with the serial number filed off, another felony. I'm willing to bet the shooter bought two handguns illegaly, then went to the gun store and bought extra clips and ammunition (you only have to 21 and provide a valid ID, but the ID is not required to be recorded and no background check is requried). Then he loaded up. Also, the issue with the firearms he bought, it is not uncommon to buy those rounds in mega bulk, so it probably wasnt unusual to see someone buy 500 round sof 9mm or 1,000 rounds of 22lr. The only flag there might have been is the number fo clips he bought, which can get expensive. If the kid was this smart to plan it so successfully, he wouldnt have left receipts of guns in the backpack. Bottom line is those guns were obtained illegally and we really dont even know if the media is reporting accurately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogx Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 See this is why i wanted to wait because now it has been proven that this kid walked into a gun store and purchased these firearms the legal way. I know people don't want their right to protection with owning guns taken away and i still think it should not be taken away, but if you don't think their is some major problems with the way back-round checks are done and the process of obtaining one, then you are living with your head buried in the sand! I'm not sure what a back-round check actually tries to find out on you but it obviously is not enough as his teachers and fellow students could of told people this kid was not right, add he is living on campus and bought enough ammo to start a little war if he wanted, should of sent up flags right away! Regardless for you gun owners if you were looking at that next newest piece to add to your collection i would do so now, the laws are going to change without question! With the democrats controlling most of Washington and with one that will most likely be elected in 08 you can count on some extreme measures to be taken by our government. I'm just hoping they don't go all out and completely ban them which i don't think is that far of a stretch after this incident, but some new laws need to be put in place that much is for sure IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobradh77 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 It doesn't matter how he got the guns legally or not he killed those people not the guns. It is a sad sad day and time when you can no longer go to school and feel safe. One of the students I saw interviewed on the today show was at Columbine when that happened as well so she has lived through something like this twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drako Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I am not about gun control or limiting the rights. However it has to get much more strict IMO. Since we used the driving example earlier. It would be similiar if people are just waltzing in without any freaking knowledge how to drive and then waltzing out with even less and a license. The other day I saw a guy LITERALLY stop, back up and make a three point turn in the middle of the highway because he missed his exit. Of course...a car slammed into him. And of course....he ran off. I dont think that guns are in line with cars but something share a common denominator. And this lax way of dealing with things has GOT to go. I dont have a gun yet...I plan on getting one. I will be pretty happy if its a pain in the ass to get one. Just so I know anyone without a rampaging criminal history can just walk in do a background check and clear. Will this affect the black market? Probably, however thats where the gun manufactures come in with technology. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogx Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 It doesn't matter how he got the guns legally or not he killed those people not the guns. It is a sad sad day and time when you can no longer go to school and feel safe. One of the students I saw interviewed on the today show was at Columbine when that happened as well so she has lived through something like this twice That is just a cop out excuse that is just over played sorry but this time the people kill people not guns excuse is not going to fly imo, fact is if he was not able to buy those guns no way in hell would 30+ people be dead today. The guns are what allowed him to kill these people, he should of never been allowed to purchase these firearms. I dont think having a much more in depth back-round check is asking to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2003SS Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I am 100% against fingerprint technology or user verified technology on firearms. Reason being is that there are numerous scenarios/examples where the end user who is justified in using the firearm may not be the owner or have had any reason to be registered to use it. Just a quick one. You and a friend are out walking and are mugged. you carry, he doesn't. You pull your weapon, the mugger struggles and knocks it out of your hands to the ground, your friend has a small chance to pick it up and shoot the mugger. Oops...you have a fingerprint trigger lock or some other device preventing him from firing other than the standard safety. Mugger kills you and him... The argument that we shouldnt have weapons because someone might turn them and use them against us is a BS argument. The only real time anyone ever gets their firearm used against them is in hollywood movies. Also, we should have the right to choose if we feel someone could overpower us or not, not have the choice made for us. But thats typical democratic montra...telling us what is good for us, not letting us make the free choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drako Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 First off, sorry if my posts have a lot of grammatical errors and my points kinda float about. I have been getting bout 2-3 hours of sleep a night, my mind is not a 100%. I see what you are saying, however I think there should be somewhat of a balence. Whether it be new technology or stricter laws, or both. For those freak ocassions that happen there are numerous others, for instance. Someone steals your gun from your truck, house, person. Point being he steals your gun. With ID technology he will not be able to use it. On the other hand, one of the big reasons people carry guns in thier person is to prevent those one in a million encounters like you mentioned. Another thing I can think of is extensive education and training. Again I am not that knowledgable in guns so please correct me. But maybe require shooting range, more stringent gun courses, updates of license and so on. Along with the stricter licenses. I would think that would stop a lot of the buyers who either buy a gun cause its cool or buy one to just have in the house "just in case" which most of the time they dont have it in a locked safe and someone on the wrong end ends up dead. Something you made a mention of, about party politics. This is very off topic, hopefully one day we can discuss it. But I am a strong believer that parties have ruined our political system. Just for example the meaning now a days of a "liberal" which in my opinion has been raped from its historical meaning. A liberal, fights for liberty. Not what it is now. To be a liberal, or conservative you are labeled. Its a damn shame really, if you voice out you are republican or democrat you are joined into one of each of the groups. Its a very big with us or against us type of thing which is one of the reasons we are getting F*&^%$# Sorry just wanted to make that quick sidenote. The irony of it all was the whole warning of political parties came from President Washington.... Anyways, My name is Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2003SS Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Another thing I can think of is extensive education and training. Again I am not that knowledgable in guns so please correct me. But maybe require shooting range, more stringent gun courses, updates of license and so on. Along with the stricter licenses. I would think that would stop a lot of the buyers who either buy a gun cause its cool or buy one to just have in the house "just in case" which most of the time they dont have it in a locked safe and someone on the wrong end ends up dead. They do make it very difficult in some states to obtain a license to carry. Like in Michigan, you must complete 16 hours of classroom education and instruction on firearms laws, defense techniques, etc. And you must qualify on a range with 4 hours of range time. Of course, this doesnt prohibit you from buying a gun, just to carry one. Honestly, here you get the same...no one in those classes is probably going to shoot up a school. They are law abiding citizens. So the question is, how do you stop the people who want to commit crimes. I'm sure this kid would have sat through a weekend course and qualified on the range to go through with this in this magnitude. The same thing could be said about cars as well. If we are going to ID guns so only their owners can sue them, why not cars and homes? We dont even have this technology in those places yet let alone on a firearm. Imagine if only you could drive your car and without your hand print, it wouldnt start? How about installing breathalizers in every car (Every drunk driver drives drunk the first time and alot of times its the first time they kill someone too), Why not have fingerprint ID's on your doors to your home? Where will it stop? Thats not liberty, thats dictatorship. I heard an interesting talk show on fox this morning. They mentioned the Tom Cruise movie where he is arrested for a crime he didnt yet commit. Why dont we develop a system to do that? The very bottom line is that we are independent animals and we are trying to take an imperfect world and make it as perfect as possible. We focus more on trying to stop needless deaths than living life to its fullest. Death is tragic, death is sorrow, but death is also life. Show me a society that has or ever had no or very few needless deaths over a span of time...you cant because it is impossible. Am I saying just let caution to the wind and hand out guns to everyone? No, but more gun control will not stop this. Remember, this is the dealiest SHOOTING on US soil, nto the dealiest attack. The kid was so hell bent on destruction, if a gun wasnt available, he could have rented a uhaul and bought some fertilizer like mcveigh in OK. He could have tried to hijack a small plane and fly it into a full university stadium. We are missing the big picture, we want to control the gun, we need to control the mind and shape our country's morals. You can drive down the freeway and flip someone off, cut them off, practically run them off the road because YOU are more important than them and probably have very littel reprocussions. Of course, that person you flipped off takes it out at work, that pushes someone else to have a bad day, who in turn doesnt talk to their 23yr old kid at home about whats going on in their life and then the kid feels alon, angry, whatever, and starts shooting. You want to solve the problem? Go to the root of the problem. We didnt have these problems 50-60years ago because 80-90% of the country had solid family values and went to some sort of organized religion. Now less than half the country attends church or religion on a regular basis and less than 30% of american families have a traditional meal time everynight. There the root fo the problem. And who do I blame? Every one of us who works 60+ hours a week, the atheist liberals, the immigrants who come over and tell us that we can not talk about god in school, but we can talk about allah, the right wing conservatives who fly off the handle and do not react appropriately, basically...I blame everyone who is still breathing in this country, we are the only ones who can do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WI_Dave Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 If guns were illeagal he would have just built a bomb or ran people over with a car, ect. If a person has it in his or her mind they are going to kill someone they will accomplish it one way or another. Guns are not to blame even though it is the easy thing to do. If tomorrow someone goes and kills a bunch of people by stabbing them with a pencil should we ban those too? My heart goes out to all those affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobradh77 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 That is just a cop out excuse that is just over played sorry but this time the people kill people not guns excuse is not going to fly imo, fact is if he was not able to buy those guns no way in hell would 30+ people be dead today. The guns are what allowed him to kill these people, he should of never been allowed to purchase these firearms. I dont think having a much more in depth back-round check is asking to much. Well you maybe right but do you honestly think if he cold not go to a store and buy a gun that he could not find one. Most gang bangers and murderers are going to use a weapon that can not be tied back to them unless your really crazy and plan on killing yourself any way. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBlueSS Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 If guns were illeagal he would have just built a bomb or ran people over with a car, ect. If a person has it in his or her mind they are going to kill someone they will accomplish it one way or another. Guns are not to blame even though it is the easy thing to do. If tomorrow someone goes and kills a bunch of people by stabbing them with a pencil should we ban those too? My heart goes out to all those affected. There are many thing within an arms reach of me that I could use to kill someone if I wanted to. Problem is that society has to blame something. It has to be the gun, the school, his little league baseball coach, or some mental disease or defect that hasn't been found yet, because we just thought of it. Fact of the matter is that the dude went nuts, killed 32 people, then offed himself, and by doing so, imho, he got off easy!! Extremism in any form is bad. Whether it be liberal or conservative. The sooner that we can remove the labels, consevative, liberal, dem, rep, black, white, hispanic, ect., the better off we'll be. Maybe then we can get past this racial BS, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaSS Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 This definitely isn't a gun control issue, but it is just a crazy person issue. I can't wait until the media and the sick politicians start trying to blame this on everything that they can. Just like John Thompson was already on Fox News before we even knew who the shooter was saying it was due to violent video games. I guess people like Hitler and Stalin must had played a few too many rounds of Grand Theft Auto themselves. If you want to live in a free society, then these are some of the risks that you have to take. It doesn't matter what kind of laws were in place, a crazy person like this is going to kill people if you want to. Gun laws will only affect the law abiding citizens, not the criminals and psychopaths. Our free society is going down the shitter, and I really don't want to imagine what kind of world that my children (if I have any) will be living in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.