shadowsniper3006 Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Hey guys, I know most say aftermarket lifters aren't worth the price, but when can you justify them? Do aftermarket lifters handle high lift cams better? Do stock lifters float down or crush with a higher lift cam and harder spring rates? If my cam is over .600 lift should i run comp cams, gmpp, or morel lifters? Do all the LS1 lifters work in our motors? If i buy a set do i have to buy them with the antirotation link(not sure what it's called), the bar that connects 2 of them? What about rocker arms, is there any gain with them? Not are they worth the price but just is there any gain? Comp cams, harland sharp, Yella Terra is there one better then the other or does one not work on our motor? when you start to deck heads and use thin head gaskets do you need adjustable, or do the non adjustable work as long as the push rod is the right length? Thanks for the help! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinh Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Hey guys, What about rocker arms, is there any gain with them? Not are they worth the price but just is there any gain? Comp cams, harland sharp, Thanks for the help! Brad I just put on a set of Harland Sharp Aluminum Roller Rockers 1.7 ratio with dowel pin between two rockers, this last week end and I love the performance gains that I got from idle to wide open throttle. The hard part is that they are not just bolt in and go. I had to modify the valve covers by grinding a 45 deg. angle on the high spots of the pertruding lugs (from the reverse sided threaded lugs, on both covers) and pening down the windage shield front locator on the drivers side valve cover. These were interfering with the valves from closing all the way. I had the valve covers off 3 times before I had all the interfering lugs ground down enough. I wish that I would of known this before I started this mod., there were no instructions or warnings with parts. The rockers look like they were going to hit the side of the heads but there just enough of a cut away in heads for clearence. What a differance that they make, it pickes up rpm's faster and a noticable horsepower gain, aprox. 10 to 12 hp. I'm glad that i did this mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverado777 Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Hey guys, I know most say aftermarket lifters aren't worth the price, but when can you justify them? Do aftermarket lifters handle high lift cams better? Do stock lifters float down or crush with a higher lift cam and harder spring rates? If my cam is over .600 lift should i run comp cams, gmpp, or morel lifters? Do all the LS1 lifters work in our motors? If i buy a set do i have to buy them with the antirotation link(not sure what it's called), the bar that connects 2 of them? What about rocker arms, is there any gain with them? Not are they worth the price but just is there any gain? Comp cams, harland sharp, Yella Terra is there one better then the other or does one not work on our motor? when you start to deck heads and use thin head gaskets do you need adjustable, or do the non adjustable work as long as the push rod is the right length? Thanks for the help! Brad Stock LS lifters are good up to about 400-500hp. If you pull your cam out and it has a big wear pattern then I would change them. If your truck has a lot of miles (80K +) then I would change them. You do not need a anti-rotation link because LS motors already have roller lifters. You only need that if you have flat tappet lifters and are switching to roller lifters. I changed mine with my cam swap. I don't have excessive wear nor a lot of miles. I'm just one of those people...do it once, do it right. Spending $300 on lifters is a hell of a lot better then spending $3000 on a rebuild if something goes wrong. However, you do have to pull the heads which means you need new head gaskets and head bolts. Beleive it or not I found those cheapest at the dealership. If you do that then I would drill 1/2 inch holes in the plastic retainer sleeves that hold the lifters so that oil can escape. Oil gets built up in the plastic retainer sleeve and can rob you of hp. Aftermarket lifters and our stock lifter look identical. Some say that lifters create a wear pattern on the cam and if you change them then there is a possibility of the lifter getting bound up and smashed. I think that is mainly for flat tappet lifter and not so much with rollers. Roller rockers are in my eyes def worth it. Take an old tool box for example(stock rockers). You pull out a drawer full of tools and its kinda hard and takes some effort. Thats because its metal sliding on metal. Now take a new snap-on tool box (roller rockers). You pull out a drawer full of tools and it slides out nice and easy with very little effort at all. Thats because there are ball bearings for it to slide on. I'm not sure what kind of difference it made on my truck because I did my cam, springs, lifters and roller rockers all at once. Less friction = more hp. I used comp cams Pro Magnum full roller rockers. They are overall heavier than aluminum. However, they weigh 5% less at the valve (where it counts) than aluminum. I could be wrong but I think that most full roller rockers are adjustable. With a bigger lift and roller rockers you will probably need to get a set of valve cover spacers. If you already haven't yet, don't forget to change your push rods with a higher lift and spring rate. Hope this helps some! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Stock LS lifters are good up to about 400-500hp. If you pull your cam out and it has a big wear pattern then I would change them. If your truck has a lot of miles (80K +) then I would change them. You do not need a anti-rotation link because LS motors already have roller lifters. You only need that if you have flat tappet lifters and are switching to roller lifters. I changed mine with my cam swap. I don't have excessive wear nor a lot of miles. I'm just one of those people...do it once, do it right. Spending $300 on lifters is a hell of a lot better then spending $3000 on a rebuild if something goes wrong. However, you do have to pull the heads which means you need new head gaskets and head bolts. Beleive it or not I found those cheapest at the dealership. If you do that then I would drill 1/2 inch holes in the plastic retainer sleeves that hold the lifters so that oil can escape. Oil gets built up in the plastic retainer sleeve and can rob you of hp. Aftermarket lifters and our stock lifter look identical. Some say that lifters create a wear pattern on the cam and if you change them then there is a possibility of the lifter getting bound up and smashed. I think that is mainly for flat tappet lifter and not so much with rollers. Roller rockers are in my eyes def worth it. Take an old tool box for example(stock rockers). You pull out a drawer full of tools and its kinda hard and takes some effort. Thats because its metal sliding on metal. Now take a new snap-on tool box (roller rockers). You pull out a drawer full of tools and it slides out nice and easy with very little effort at all. Thats because there are ball bearings for it to slide on. I'm not sure what kind of difference it made on my truck because I did my cam, springs, lifters and roller rockers all at once. Less friction = more hp. I used comp cams Pro Magnum full roller rockers. They are overall heavier than aluminum. However, they weigh 5% less at the valve (where it counts) than aluminum. I could be wrong but I think that most full roller rockers are adjustable. With a bigger lift and roller rockers you will probably need to get a set of valve cover spacers. If you already haven't yet, don't forget to change your push rods with a higher lift and spring rate. Hope this helps some! are the plastic pieces your talking about the lifter giudes in the motor, i think there are 4 of them. I've read it's better to use the new LS2 guides, do those have the holes in them already? Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 My opinion - yeah it's expensive but it's also money well spent for a high-performance truck application where a rowdy cam is installed; the production LSx valvetrain is about one step better than *crap*. The aftermarket rocker arms will rescue lost power, and the lifters will deliver improved reliability and RPM capability. The key things you have to consider for valvetrain stability is spring pressure, mass of moving parts, and RPM/lobe design (intertia). The stock springs are fairly light in the shorts, there's not a lot of spring pressure over-the-nose and it's a good thing in the stock application as it helps the cam live a quarter-million miles but you see valvetrain performance issues above 6100 (give or take) on the stock (tame) cam; if you have heavier valves, or heavier springs, or high RPM, or a more aggressive cam lobe then the whole valvetrain will have to be rethought. If it wasn't for the fact that the heads had to come off this motor design I am sure it would be normal practice for all LSx cam swaps to also replace the production lifters with LS7 ones. Another huge culprit of lost valve action is the weenie pushrods, and yes the factory rocker arms deflect quite a bit when you re-use them with stiffer springs; a lot of guys buy a "600-lift cam" but in fact are only seeing .580 or so when you add up all the deflection... Dan and I have observed that the production lifters in the LS2 (GTO & TBSS) are *far* more failure prone than the ones delivered in the LS1 and Vortec motors. The LS2 rocker boxes - I don't think there is any appreciable difference between the LQ9 ones and the LS2 ones other than the factory finally got smart and picked-up the hotrodder's trick of drilling the oil drain-back holes. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerJJ Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Stock LS lifters are good up to about 400-500hp. If you pull your cam out and it has a big wear pattern then I would change them. If your truck has a lot of miles (80K +) then I would change them. You do not need a anti-rotation link because LS motors already have roller lifters. You only need that if you have flat tappet lifters and are switching to roller lifters. I changed mine with my cam swap. I don't have excessive wear nor a lot of miles. I'm just one of those people...do it once, do it right. Spending $300 on lifters is a hell of a lot better then spending $3000 on a rebuild if something goes wrong. However, you do have to pull the heads which means you need new head gaskets and head bolts. Beleive it or not I found those cheapest at the dealership. If you do that then I would drill 1/2 inch holes in the plastic retainer sleeves that hold the lifters so that oil can escape. Oil gets built up in the plastic retainer sleeve and can rob you of hp. Aftermarket lifters and our stock lifter look identical. Some say that lifters create a wear pattern on the cam and if you change them then there is a possibility of the lifter getting bound up and smashed. I think that is mainly for flat tappet lifter and not so much with rollers. Roller rockers are in my eyes def worth it. Take an old tool box for example(stock rockers). You pull out a drawer full of tools and its kinda hard and takes some effort. Thats because its metal sliding on metal. Now take a new snap-on tool box (roller rockers). You pull out a drawer full of tools and it slides out nice and easy with very little effort at all. Thats because there are ball bearings for it to slide on. I'm not sure what kind of difference it made on my truck because I did my cam, springs, lifters and roller rockers all at once. Less friction = more hp. I used comp cams Pro Magnum full roller rockers. They are overall heavier than aluminum. However, they weigh 5% less at the valve (where it counts) than aluminum. I could be wrong but I think that most full roller rockers are adjustable. With a bigger lift and roller rockers you will probably need to get a set of valve cover spacers. If you already haven't yet, don't forget to change your push rods with a higher lift and spring rate. Hope this helps some! Do you have part number for any of these items? I am looking at installing my cam over the winter some time (Comp 236/238, .601/.605, 113) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Do you have part number for any of these items? I am looking at installing my cam over the winter some time (Comp 236/238, .601/.605, 113) I like that cam! more duration then mine but less lift, hope you have a high converter for it. Mine is 224,226 and it doesn't turn on till 3400. GMPP ls7 7000 rpm lifter 1249225, about $120 GMPP cts-vr lifter good for 8500 rpm 88958689 about $220 Morel lifters about $495 thanks Mr. P! I do have over a .600 lift cam and dual comp cam springs. Any favorit brand for rockers? Harland sharp, yella terra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 ...thanks Mr. P! I do have over a .600 lift cam and dual comp cam springs. Any favorit brand for rockers? Harland sharp, yella terra? Cost no option, the Crane rocker arm kit. YT are very very good as well. HS are supposed to work well and be a lot more affordable, I have HS on my 1970 Pontiac. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) wow the crane(quick lift) are pricy, about 300 more then the others. Little to much for me right now, the HS and YT are the same price. If you had to choose between those 2 you would take the YT shaft mount compared to the HS. Both are 399, both are non adjustable, both say they work with stock covers but as mentioned here and in other places i found the HS may hit the covers. We also have the HS on our nova. thanks again Brad Ref. links from ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yella-Terra...sspagenameZWDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harland-Sha...sspagenameZWDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Crane-14475...sspagenameZWDVW Edited July 19, 2008 by shadowsniper3006 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverado777 Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Do you have part number for any of these items? I am looking at installing my cam over the winter some time (Comp 236/238, .601/.605, 113) Here is what I used for my cam swap. Comp Cams Hydrolic roller lifter 875-16 Comp Cams Pro Magnum full roller rockers w/guide plates 13755-kit Comp Cams Beehive springs (GOOD FOR A .625 LIFT) 26918-16 Comp Cams Push Rods 7638-16 Don't for to get new retainers and valve locks. You can type the part numbers on ebay and get prices for each of these. I went to a place called Loper's here is Arizona and got the parts even cheaper than off ebay. That way I knew they were quality parts and not someone elses junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverado777 Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Also for anyone who is going to do a cam swap....please take out the lifters before you take out the cam. I didn't do that and one of the lifters fell. Spent 4 hours looking for it. Big freakin nightmare. LS series motor use Torque to yeild head bolt and crank bolts. They are one time use and you will have to replace them. To make life easier just get head studs and be done with it. Trust me on that one. ARP makes a replacement crank bolt that is reusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerJJ Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 I like that cam! more duration then mine but less lift, hope you have a high converter for it. Mine is 224,226 and it doesn't turn on till 3400. GMPP ls7 7000 rpm lifter 1249225, about $120 GMPP cts-vr lifter good for 8500 rpm 88958689 about $220 Morel lifters about $495 thanks Mr. P! I do have over a .600 lift cam and dual comp cam springs. Any favorit brand for rockers? Harland sharp, yella terra? Thanks for the info. I have a 3200 stall converter currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I'm about to order parts for the truck like the rocker arms, and lifters but i have a couple of questions about the other things i need. Our motors use the 4.030 bore gaskets right? I'm going to order cometic .040 gaskets for the upgrade. Also, are the arp head bolts reusable? Any one have the correct part number for our motor? Thanks Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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