Cramer Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ok so here is the deal. I want to start to tune my own truck since I put one upgrade on at a time (so the wife don't find out), and I don't want to have to take it to a tuner every few months to have it retuned after I do a mod. I don't have any "great" tuners in my area, and none with a awd dyno. So I figure if I start out by tuning my own truck and learn as I go, I wouldn't be wasting money in the long run. I found a an EFI Live Flashscan V1.2 module that is brand new with 2 licenses, OBD & USB cables, software CD, license, and warranty card, and external input connectors for $250. I don't want to spend a chunk on a great tuner right now so I would like to start out with the basic and upgrade when I get better. Let me know what you all think. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Go for it, you wont regret it. The V1 if a good unit and its more than capable for your truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cramer Posted September 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 That's all I needed to know. Purchasing it tomm. I was pulling out of my buddies shop tonight and laid on the gas and heard some spark knock and I said to myself I was going to get it. I know I will be asking some questions on how to tune but I appreciate your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 That is a GREAT price for the V1 cable, I would even say too good to pass up. The software is still the same, after you get the cable go straight to the efilive.com site and download the latest version of the software (it's free, the cable is what costs the $$$). Also get signed-up on the EFILive users forum. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cramer Posted September 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I have been checking the site out all day trying to figure out the best route to take on tuning my truck. I noticed alot of people use wideband. Is this necessary to use as it costs about another $250? If so since my truck has dual 02's and pipes going out would I have to have 2 WB sensors? Thanks for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Short answer, yes you are going to want a WB02 sooner or later. I hear you on the cost, that's why I bought the PLX SM-AFR without the gauge but that was still a couple-hundred bucks. I would also advise getting a WB02 setup that has digital output, they are far more accurate. The factory NB02's are ONLY accurate at 14.6:1 (stochiometric); but since the PCM commands 14.6 in 90% of driving situations they prove very useful to dialing in fuel economy in your tune, but when you bury your foot in the throttle and the PCM richens the AFR the NB02's are totally lost for accuracy. NB02s are not totally useless in tuning, most fuel economy & part-throttle tuning is done by observing NB02 fuel trims and making VE adjustments. But for high-load driving where the PCM commands an AFR below stochiometric you need a WB02 to tell you exactly what's going on and determine the necessary VE adjustments. Now all that said, Dan used only NB02s while tuning the 5.3L in the S10 and got it running VERY well, the fuel economy on that truck is dead-on, like mid-20's combined MPG and it runs high-12s in the quarter, so street-tuning off the NB02s is possible but it takes a ton of driving (Dan told me he went through 4 tanks of gas!) and we are sure there is still more on the table with that truck so someday it will be revisited with a WB02. But that is a closed-loop N/A application, don't EVEN attempt to tune a F/I or speed-density application without a WB02. Mr. P. Edited September 11, 2009 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cramer Posted September 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 So I should get 2 WBo2's to tune the truck then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Just one, before the drivers side cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cramer Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Ok I got it, downloaded the new updates, software, and manuals. Plugged it in, plugged the laptop in, and went through the vin code readings and dtc's. I tried to log with the black box, but when I push the button the log button just blinks once. Is it logging? Cause when I try to read it I can't find a log. Then I tried to record it to my laptop in the dash view, but can't figure out how to save the real time logs. I thought I had saved the pid's but I can't find them either. I really want to log a couple tests cause I have a spark knock that I don't like, and I want to take care of that asap. Any help is appreciated as I am a virgin at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 walk trough the manual that are available on efilive.com they are a good starting point and cover all of your question with good detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I hear you, EFILive is great software but it's not intuitive at all, it's like a pro tool built by pros for pros, so you really need someone to show you the ropes. I WRITE software for a living and had hell ramping up to speed with EFILive, so my advice with the product is, it's not beyond anyone's ability to use, but there is so much to soak-in that it is very overwhelming and there are times you gotta step back and take a breath. The problem is that you have TWO challenges; you are simultaneously trying to master the tool (EFILive) as you are also trying to master what changes you should make to your tune and how that affects your vehicle. First thing I would skip BBL for now, and just log straight to the laptop for sake of education. Work not on tuning but rather picking the 'right' PIDs and taking the truck for a drive and capturing a good log file. To begin with, I did one self-lesson where I picked the PIDs from the AutoVE tutorial but DID NOT put the truck in SD mode, and drove around for a few minutes to capture some real data, and saved the logfile, and sat down at the kitchen table and played with replaying the log in the EFILive dashboard, both making my own custom dashboard & map files. I know that you're not tuning yet by doing this exercise, but you get to where you become proficient monitoring what is going on inside the vehicle. Once you feel comfortable selecting PIDs and capturing data with your laptop, then install EFILive version 8 and take a crack at getting output via BBL. THEN the fun begins (tuning)!!! At this point I would refer you to //forum.efilive.com, that is by far the most active tuning site available for us, also there are a few VERY sharp professional tuners on //www.hardcorels1.com once you start getting deeper into tuning and they don't talk so much about software but rather about fueling, spark, etc no matter what package you are tuning with. In the end it's all the same PCM... One thing that I did was take the EFI101 class (google EFI University) and that was the best $500 I spent in a LONG time. Another resource is Greg Banish, he has also now put his tuning book on Summit for about $350 and I will be getting that myself, again a education program about what really goes on inside a motor rather than 'how to use HPT' or 'how to use EFILive'. My $0.02. Mr. P. ps - I'll add this, as a programmer in general: being a good debugger is more than half the battle; great programmers are very good at knowing what they have to monitor as they drive, learn about what the individual PIDs represent and why the PCM thinks as it does and combine that knowledge with some good expert/guru advise now & then and that will get you more than half-way to your goals. The primary job in 'tuning' isn't tuning, but rather capturing meaningful data (selecting the right PIDs). Edited September 23, 2009 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cramer Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Thanks MR.P. All I am trying to do as of now is figure out what the truck is doing when and why. I have spark knock at this point but why etc. once I can get my files logged and viewed as you said I can play them and see what needs to be done. I can't get any logging done because my wife is driving the SSS casue our lease on the Equinox is almost up and were close to the miles. We were looking at a 06 TBSS but she wants third row seating now. Thank you for the help. I know i'll have more questions when I get my logs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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