fox_forma Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Well I made my way over the s10 forums but it seems a lot of people get sidetracked pretty easily and since a trans is a trans and a lot of you guys are gear heads I would like to know your thoughts. Motor/trans 99 4.3/5sp I am pulling the trans this weekend hopefully no matter what. I am pretty sure something let loose in there. I can start the truck up but it will not engage any gears, it will go into the slots as if it was shifting though. Clutch has what seems like proper tension and no slop. Heres the kicker, with the truck started I can hear a clanging noise at the rear of the motor and front of the trans. I have been trying to read as much as possible but it seems everything I read isn't my situation although close but most threads people still had a gear. WOuld the input shaft cause this or possibly just bad bearings, etc. Any help would be awesome as my questions seem to get sidetracked on the OTHER forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Check proper clutch operation first; get the truck on stands & block the rear wheels, and with a helper pushing on the clutch pedal take a feeler gauge and see if you can slip it between the clutch disk and the flywheel (going by memory anywhere between 0.050 and 0.080 should work). If the clutch never touches the flywheel or the clutch disc is greasy or glazed over you won't be going anywhere. If it's not the clutch then yeah the trans will have to come out for inspection, it's not a hard job compared to an automatic. My money is that it's more likely the clutch is shot rather than the transmission; it is RARE that a manual trans will break so bad that you have NO working gears, you should get motion in at least the 1:1 gear (4th gear?) and of course that will stall the motor but if not then I say you need a new clutch, pressure plate, & hydraulic throwout bearing. Mr. P. Edited November 12, 2009 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Just curious but how do I get a feeler gauge in there with everything bolted up? Is there an access hole to use? The main concern is the clanking I hear going on when the truck is fired up. it did get louder when I gave it gas but I on;y did that once as I didn't want to cause even more damage. Like mentioned I have nothing in any gear, I tried putting it in every gear just to see if I could get some friction but the wheels still turned freely. If the clutch was burnt up and shot wouldn't the pedal get a little mushy? The previous owner did say the clutch tightened up on him when the truck broke down but the clutch doesn't feel stiff at all. Just from being around clutches and trans with dirt bikes and ATV's this feels like a linkage issue but vehicle set-ups are new for me but I'm sure I will learn pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Clutches are fairly straightforward; yes there will be an access cover at the bottom of the bellhousing specifically to inspect clutch operation. The good news is that the trans is probably just fine, and replacing the clutch will be far cheaper. It just sounds like a bad clutch, that's the first place I would check. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 well i guess i will try to get that done tomorrow hopefully. Does all the oil have to drained out of the house first before inspecting the clutch? Don't really want to pull the access cover to have oil all over me and my garage floor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueAKSSS Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) No the oil does not have to be drained out of the trans for inspecting the clutch, it should have a little access cover to look in there, probably the throwout/pilot bearing is what you hear rattling around in there when you start the truck up. Edited November 12, 2009 by Matt* (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 The clutch needs to be bone dry; if there is any oil or wetness on it at all it's toast. Make sure that there is no rear main seal leak, hydraulic throw-out bearing leak, or input shaft leak. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 got the truck is the air and will be attempting this soon hopefully, things keep coming up though so who knows. I got under the truck and can see the access holes to what looks like a pressure plate and large gear (forget the name). While in the air I did start it up and put it in gear and I got minimal rotation to the wheels but I did get some, just not much. Hopefully I can get a second set of hands to drop this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 pulled the trans and the clutch, there looks to be absolutely no grip left so I am hoping this is the cause. I am also hoping the noises I was hearing was metal against metal but will be inspecting the trans as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 looking at it again, the clutch hub is stripped, new clutch and slave is ordered so lets hope there is no more surprises! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yeah that clutch has served its useful life; you can also see a bunch of abuse in the bluing of the pressure plate. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Mr P, need your insight once again. Got a new clutch and installed it along with a new Slave cylinder and pilot bearing etc. Made sure it all went in properly but now the clutch isn't acting like a neutral. Still makes all sorts of noises but I can't tell if its the clutch or motor so that should be fun to diagnose. I bled the ish out of this thing and I have good pressure at the clutch pedal but it just isn't releasing. If I have the rear in the air and put it in gear it doesn't make a difference if the clutch is pushed in or not, the rear wheels still turn at speed. I am out of ideas, only thing I can think of is the new slave is junk for some reason but it is bleeding properly but maybe not enough pressure to release the new clutch...... Any ideas before I have to go round two in tearing it down again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 If the pedal pressure feels good then most likely you've got all the air out; here I am out of expertise because I've never had a hydraulic setup before, but it sounds like either the throwout bearing is too short; there should be an adjustable link of some kind so that you can lengthen/shorten the pedal travel, you need to 'lengthen' the linkage. It might also be that with that hydraulic setup there is no adjustment, I dunno. The noises, I would have to see/hear them... Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 well i think I figured it out and I pretty much shit the bed on this one. The recommended tq for the pressure plate bolts are 30lbs, well apparently with the lock washers that are on it I hit the 30lb mark fairly easily and there was still more tightening that is needed. I had my roommate jump in and press the clutch while was underneath and could see the free play the bolts were giving up not being tightened all the way. I can access the bolts from the access holes underneath and got 3 of them so far with a closed end of a wrench. I am not pulling this crap apart again till i know I won't be pulling it all out if the motor is shot. Just doing it by hand now and wrenching them down tight but not overhill. Any ideas how I can get the flywheel to spin easier so I can access the bolts quicker? I would assume I need to pull all the plugs then should be ok but was hoping there was an easier way. :banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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