Official: McGoofy's product TOTALLY sucks. :(

[misterp]

I am just back from Killer Ridez, I asked them to go over my McGaughy's drop kit install and assess the vibration in the truck. To correct the pinion angle will take just over 8-degrees of axle rotation and that is so much Killer Ridez will not do it with shims (I don't blame them). So I have made an appointment next weekend to have the spring perches cut from the rear axle, the axle housing rotated to where it belongs, then the spring perches re-welded into their new position. While I am at it I will be trying to get a pair of Calvert Racing traction bars and just do the whole rear end at one time.

 

The good news is that the front is within tolerance; I am using the 2" drop spindles and 1" torsion keys. The steering wheel shake I have at 45-mph in their experience is most likely a defective tire (bad/broken belt); I am going to rotate tires to try and verify this.

 

This eff'n sucks. I had assumed that since the SS-specific rear kit contained both front spring perches and rear shackles that an engineer at McGaughy's had actually taken the time to think through the geometry so that the resulting pinion/driveline angle would be where it needs to be. It is obvious to me now that McGaughy's put little to no R&D in the rear drop kit, no consideration was given to pinion angles at all. The least that they could have done is to tell their customers that rear pinion angle correction will be required. Assholes.

 

Will share more on this as it gets worked out.

 

On the upside, Killer Ridez is a fantastic place, I give it two thumbs WAY up. These guys have their stuff together. Two buildings PACKED with dropped vehicle builds in progress, next time I'm taking my camera.

 

Mr. P.

[04CHASE]

good infor p keep it coming, but jeeze that is alot of work to do just for a dam drop ! i have 4* shims in mine and it still vibrates!

Edited May 13, 2006 by 04CHASE (see edit history)

[a-blur-by-you]

Damn misterp, I haven't had the problems with my McG. kit that you speak of

I hope you get it all squared away

[r8rs4lf]

I assume the axle needs to be rotated up?

 

Damn misterp, I haven't had the problems with my McG. kit that you speak of

I hope you get it all squared away

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You might be having the same issues, just not trying to get it perfect like Mr. P. I applaude your effort P and am very interested in your findings, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? I assumed when I bought the kit that a few things would be off, things just can't be that perfect IMHO, especially since I am a pessimist.

Edited May 13, 2006 by r8rs4lf (see edit history)

[misterp]

I assume the axle needs to be rotated up? 

 

Damn misterp, I haven't had the problems with my McG. kit that you speak of

I hope you get it all squared away

You might be having the same issues, just not trying to get it perfect like Mr. P. I applaude your effort P and am very interested in your findings, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? I assumed when I bought the kit that a few things would be off, things just can't be that perfect IMHO, especially since I am a pessimist.

The axle needs to be rotated down; the rear pinion is currently elevated 5.25-degrees upward; it should be around 3-degrees downward - it's off by a lot. The reason for the persistence is that I do intend to keep the truck long-term, and I'll be damned if I am going to have to live with a bunch of shaking in the drivetrain. Also, I do want to take the truck to the strip, I know that at some point I will be installing a stupifying amount of horsepower (Berserker I'm comin' for ya ) and you just can't do that until all the basics are right. The last thing I want to do is chunk the driveline out onto the pavement.

 

R8RS4LF: What am I trying to accomplish? I don't know what to tell you dude, I don't know how to be any other way. I do know this, I'm pissed. I mean I'm REALLY angry, I haven't been this angry since I was married.

 

I've caught McGaughy's in a mistake; either they designed the kit incorrectly, or they failed to disclose in their instructions that post-install driveline correction would be required and that professional chassis fabrication is needed. Or, they failed to test their own product - if McGaughy's had taken the time to even install this kit themselves on an SS they would have found this issue straight away. Any way you cut it, that's THEIR mistake.

 

MY mistake was assuming that McGaughy's operated under the same principles of excellence I stress at my own company and in my own life - I never put anything into production unless it is well researched, comprehensively developed, and TESTED END-TO-END; I make the effort to also find as many people as possible to test our solutions.

 

I am not trying to say that I'm perfect, I've had a high-profile software project fall on its ass because a single character was mistyped in 100,000 lines of code (to give you an idea, that's the same as a single typo in a novel). But I also accept that what I do for a living has so many opportunities for mistake that I make damn sure I am there to immediately fix last-minute issues and make things right before calling the job done and moving on.

 

In other words, I pay for my own mistakes, I don't expect or let others do that. Do you think for one minute Mike McGaughy is going call me and offer to reimburse me the $50 that had to be spent in gas today to have HIS product issue diagnosed? Do you think anyone is going to say "here Mr. P., here's $400 to cover re-welding the spring perches on your axles because that kit rotated your axle so much nobody even makes shims big enough to correct it"? Didn't think so.

 

So Mike McGaughy, I think of you now just like my EX-wife, making me pay for YOUR mistakes.

 

Me paying for other people's problems. ****ing Whatever. It's only money. I can always make more money. I just can't find a suspension kit worth a shit to spend it on.

 

Mr. P.

[04CHASE]

wow P how do you really feel? thats a great way to live but unfortunatley 99% of todays business's are run just like mcgaughy's. i respect your words and how your approaching the suspension problems, i am very interested in your findings, i too plan on keeping this truck for a long time. so definatley keep us informed.

Now saying the pinion angle needs to be down 3* so that would mean the degree shims need to be angled fat end pointing toward the front of the truck to help the mis aligned angle

like this

 

shim_diagram.bmp

 

i dont know if it would work but beltech makes 6 * shims, maybe weld a 6 and a 2 together but i would be weary of doing that much .

Edited May 13, 2006 by 04CHASE (see edit history)

[kaotik1]

Damn P, that really does suck. I hope that once this gets situated that you get can get things resolved with McG. I also hope that once the remainded of my drop comes in I don't have any issues as you have descibed.

 

Please do keep us posted as to what happens.

[Dylan06SS]

Sorry to hear that P... I had no complaints with the kit other than it should've included the degree shims... other than that I had no where near the issues you're having.

 

I can understand your frustration and you have every right to be upset, but based on the overall experience most people have had with the product and the fact GM engineers awarded the kit a design award I'd stop short of saying the PRODUCT totally suck... the company or the customer support maybe.

[r8rs4lf]

The axle needs to be rotated down; the rear pinion is currently elevated 5.25-degrees upward; it should be around 3-degrees downward - it's off by a lot.  The reason for the persistence is that I do intend to keep the truck long-term, and I'll be damned if I am going to have to live with a bunch of shaking in the drivetrain.  Also, I do want to take the truck to the strip, I know that at some point I will be installing a stupifying amount of horsepower (Berserker I'm comin' for ya ) and you just can't do that until all the basics are right.  The last thing I want to do is chunk the driveline out onto the pavement.

 

R8RS4LF: What am I trying to accomplish?  I don't know what to tell you dude, I don't know how to be any other way.  I do know this, I'm pissed.  I mean I'm REALLY angry, I haven't been this angry since I was married.

 

I've caught McGaughy's in a mistake; either they designed the kit incorrectly, or they failed to disclose in their instructions that post-install driveline correction would be required and that professional chassis fabrication is needed.  Or, they failed to test their own product - if McGaughy's had taken the time to even install this kit themselves on an SS they would have found this issue straight away.  Any way you cut it, that's THEIR mistake.

 

MY mistake was assuming that McGaughy's operated under the same principles of excellence I stress at my own company and in my own life - I never put anything into production unless it is well researched, comprehensively developed, and TESTED END-TO-END; I make the effort to also find as many people as possible to test our solutions.

 

I am not trying to say that I'm perfect, I've had a high-profile software project fall on its ass because a single character was mistyped in 100,000 lines of code (to give you an idea, that's the same as a single typo in a novel).  But I also accept that what I do for a living has so many opportunities for mistake that I make damn sure I am there to immediately fix last-minute issues and make things right before calling the job done and moving on.

 

In other words, I pay for my own mistakes, I don't expect or let others do that.  Do you think for one minute Mike McGaughy is going call me and offer to reimburse me the $50 that had to be spent in gas today to have HIS product issue diagnosed?  Do you think anyone is going to say "here Mr. P., here's $400 to cover re-welding the spring perches on your axles because that kit rotated your axle so much nobody even makes shims big enough to correct it"?  Didn't think so. 

 

So Mike McGaughy, I think of you now just like my EX-wife, making me pay for YOUR mistakes.

 

Me paying for other people's problems.  ****ing Whatever.  It's only money.  I can always make more money.  I just can't find a suspension kit worth a shit to spend it on.

 

Mr. P.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Damn P, all that?

 

I would love to take a ride in your truck to see exactly what you are upset about because as you can see, most people don't have the issues you are having. Then again maybe they are, but just don't feel the same way you do about the issues. I surely can understand that you want the driveline perfect for the amount of horsepower you are going to add in the future. Anyways, I hope you get it all straight.

[TBSS]

GM gave them a design award for their spindles, that's it. They did not rate any of McGaughys kits, if they did, it would have been a different story. Their spindles are a decent product, but I have not seen anything else come out of that company that I would consider worthy, or trustworthy.

 

I tried their 3" drop springs (coils) in my Avalanche, what a mistake that was. Had them in my truck for about a week before I had to remove them. Same spring rate as stock, just 3" lower. Perfect recipe for bottoming out and crappy handling. Any other company will increase the spring rate when creating a drop spring to compensate for the decrease in travel and overall spring; McGaughys did not. They just chopped off 2.5 coils. Brilliant! (not)

 

And they will never say that installing one of their drop kits changes any angles. Which is bullshit, because ANY TIME YOU INSTALL A LIFT OR DROP YOU CHANGE THE ANGLES. Sometimes the change is small enough such that you don't have to deal with it, but at minimum you should always check the angles after a lift or drop. The fact they will not cop to this fact tells me they have no integrity as a company, and as a result are not worthy of my respect.

 

I agree with Mr. P, as a company McGaughys should be shied away from. As long as you know the quality of exactly what you're getting (i.e. spindles), then make the decision cautiously, but I'd stay away from their other stuff, and don't trust anything they tell you about suspension, because their M.O. is to sell product only, not to ensure you are safe or satisfied. In this respect they are extremely irresponsible.

[NorCalSS]

well wish me luck Steve, hopefully my install on the McGaughy's kit goes well. good thing you found a good shop to help you with your current problems. thanks again bro for all your help!

 

-ejay

[misterp]

I'm in a much better mood now - sorry for loosing my composure earlier, I was basically so angry that I was talking to myself driving home! As you can tell, I've had real issues dealing with inconsiderate people before, so I'm pretty sensitive about that. OTOH it's just a truck. This is not the end of the world. We'll git 'r dun.

 

Mr. P.

[misterp]

... Now saying the pinion angle needs to be down 3* so that would mean the degree shims need to be angled fat end pointing toward the front of the truck to help the mis aligned angle

like this ...

Nope Chase - that diagram is backwards. In my truck the pinion is pointed towards the sky; to bring it back down you must install the shim with the thick end oriented towards the rear of the truck. Stacking shims is workable on a drag car but not an everyday vehicle, they are known to crack and fail over time. There is a guy on the internet somewhere that will make custom billet shims at like $150/pr but that did not appeal to me.

 

Mr. P.

[04CHASE]

... Now saying the pinion angle needs to be down 3* so that would mean the degree shims need to be angled fat end pointing toward the front of the truck to help the mis aligned angle

like this ...

Nope Chase - that diagram is backwards. In my truck the pinion is pointed towards the sky; to bring it back down you must install the shim with the thick end oriented towards the rear of the truck. Stacking shims is workable on a drag car but not an everyday vehicle, they are known to crack and fail over time. There is a guy on the internet somewhere that will make custom billet shims at like $150/pr but that did not appeal to me.

 

Mr. P.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

really i wouldnt see it working like that, i would see if they were faced like that that they would raise the pinion angle up toward the sky.

 

another ex

shim_diagram_1_.bmp

Edited May 14, 2006 by 04CHASE (see edit history)

[misterp]

... Now saying the pinion angle needs to be down 3* so that would mean the degree shims need to be angled fat end pointing toward the front of the truck to help the mis aligned angle

like this ...

Nope Chase - that diagram is backwards. In my truck the pinion is pointed towards the sky; to bring it back down you must install the shim with the thick end oriented towards the rear of the truck. Stacking shims is workable on a drag car but not an everyday vehicle, they are known to crack and fail over time. There is a guy on the internet somewhere that will make custom billet shims at like $150/pr but that did not appeal to me.

 

Mr. P.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

really i wouldnt see it working like that, i would see if they were faced like that that they would raise the pinion angle up toward the sky.

 

another ex

shim_diagram_1_.bmp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DOH! You're right, I'm wrong. I didn't put my brain in gear earlier.... the thick part of the shim needs to be oriented towards the front of the truck.

 

Mr. P.