rumpy Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Well, i took my truck to a shop called Auto Electric, they couldn't figure anything out beyound the fact my coils have power. So I had the truck towed to the biggest GM dealer in Alaska, and they just called me and told me they can't do anything to it, it has been too highly modified. When I originally took it in, I asked them to do a crank relearn. I asked the guy who called to please have his tech call me. I'm at a loss - any suggestions? Edited March 13, 2007 by rumpy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpy Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) Well, i took my truck to a shop called Auto Electric, they couldn't figure anything out beyound the fact my coils have power. So I had the truck towed to the biggest GM dealer in Alaska, and they just called me and told me they can't do anything to it, it has been too highly modified. When I originally took it in, I asked them to do a crank relearn. I asked the guy who called to please have his tech call me. I'm at a loss - any suggestions? I argued to have (and begged) to have them do a crank relearn, but they insisted on having nothing to do with my truck. Any suggestions? Edited March 14, 2007 by rumpy (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I argued to have (and begged) to have them do a crank relearn, but they insisted on having nothing to do with my truck. Any suggestions? It has to be running for a crank relearn to work... You have spark, do you have fuel? Any codes popping up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpy Posted March 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 It has to be running for a crank relearn to work...You have spark, do you have fuel? Any codes popping up? Good fuel pressure, no spark. No codes(well, an airbag code - but i've had that for two years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 The best advice I can give you is to either buy the set of GM shop manual DVD's or the Helm manual that you can order in the back of your owners' manual. The Chevrolet dealer not wanting to help you is a sack of bullshit. What you need are the troubleshooting flowcharts. Maybe you could go to the dealer and ask them to print them off for you or better yet go online to the Alldata website and sign up...it does cost although not too much for what you get. Follow the flow charts. I assume you have checked all of the grounds and in the auxillary fuse box under the hood for blown fuse links/fuses/relays. Have you used a noid light to see if the injectors are pulsing? If not then you're not getting a signal from the cam and/or crank sensors. Man I feel for ya and Alaska is a little bit of a haul for most of us who could/would help you. I'll browse my GM manual and see if I can find anything for you. Dave Link to ALLDATA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Here is a copy of the trouobleshooting list from my shop manual DVD. Now it dosen't have the links to all of the tests but you see how the deal could have used their scan tool to at least look at it for you...hell I guess they don't like to make any money. The second part has to deal with troubleshooting the igntion. Also another question...do you have compression? Good luck Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engine Cranks but Does Not Run Description The Engine Cranks but Does Not Run diagnostic table is an organized approach to identifying a condition that causes an engine to not start. The diagnostic table directs the service technician to the appropriate system diagnosis. The diagnostic table assumes the following conditions are met: The battery is completely charged. Refer to Battery Inspection/Test in Engine Electrical. The engine cranking speed is acceptable. Refer to Engine Cranks Slowly in Engine Electrical. There is adequate fuel in the fuel tank. Step Action Values Yes No Schematic Reference: Engine Controls Schematics Connector End View Reference: Engine Controls Connector End Views or Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector End Views 1 Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check-Engine Controls? -- Go to Step 2 Go to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls 2 Crank the engine for the specified amount of time. Does the scan tool display any DTCs that failed this ignition? 15 seconds Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List Go to Step 3 3 Does the scan tool display any body control module (BCM) vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) DTCs? -- Go to Diagnostic System Check - Theft Deterrent in Theft Deterrent Go to Step 4 4 Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Probe both sides of the powertrain control module (PCM) 1 fuse located in the underhood electrical center with a test lamp connected to a good ground. Does the test lamp illuminate on at least one side of the fuse? -- Go to Step 5 Go to Ignition Relay Diagnosis 5 Monitor the ignition 1 signal parameter with a scan tool. Is the ignition 1 signal parameter at the specified value? B+ Go to Step 6 Go to Step 10 6 Command the fuel pump ON with a scan tool. Does the fuel pump operate? -- Go to Step 7 Go to Fuel Pump Electrical Circuit Diagnosis 7 Turn OFF the ignition. Disconnect a spark plug wire. Install the J 26792 Spark Tester. Attempt to start the engine. Repeat test for remaining cylinders. Does the spark tester spark for all cylinders? -- Go to Step 8 Go to Electronic Ignition (EI) System Diagnosis 8 Turn OFF the ignition. Install a fuel pressure gage. Refer to Fuel System Diagnosis . Important The fuel pump operates for about 2 seconds when the ignition is turned ON. The fuel pressure must be observed when the fuel pump is operating. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Observe the fuel pressure while the fuel pump is operating. Is the fuel pressure within the specified range? VIN V, T, U Gasoline: 385-425 kPa (55-62 psi) VIN Z Ethanol: 335-375 kPa (48-54 psi) Go to Step 9 Go to Fuel System Diagnosis 9 Inspect for the following conditions: The engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor is not close to the actual engine temperature. Refer to DTC P0125 . The duct work between the mass air flow (MAF) sensor and the throttle body for air leaks A restricted exhaust system--Refer to Restricted Exhaust in Engine Exhaust. A malfunctioning MAF sensor may cause a no start or a stall after a start. If you suspect this, disconnect the MAF sensor. The PCM will default to the speed density in order to calculate the engine load and the intake air flow. If disconnecting the MAF sensor corrects the condition and the connections are OK. Refer to DTC P0102 . The spark plugs for being gas fouled--Refer to Spark Plug Inspection . An engine mechanical failure that causes an engine not to start such as timing chain, low compression--Refer to Engine Compression Test and Symptoms - Engine Mechanical in Engine Mechanical - 4.8L, 5.3L, and 6.0L. Compare the MAP/BARO parameters to another vehicle. The parameter values should be close to each other. Did you complete the action? -- Go to Step 13 -- 10 Test the ignition 1 voltage circuits that are supplied by the PCM 1 fuse for an open or for a short to ground. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Replace the fuse if necessary. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 13 Go to Step 11 11 Inspect for poor connections at the harness connector of the PCM. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 13 Go to Step 12 12 Replace the PCM. Refer to Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 13 -- 13 Clear the DTCs with a scan tool. Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds. Attempt to start the engine. Does the engine start the continue to run? -- Go to Step 14 Go to Step 2 14 Allow the engine to reach operating temperature. Observe the DTC information with a scan tool. Are there any DTCs that have not been diagnosed? -- Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List System OK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Electronic Ignition (EI) System Diagnosis Circuit Description The electronic ignition system uses an individual ignition coil for each cylinder. The powertrain control module (PCM) controls the ignition operation through eight individual ignition control (IC) circuits. Each bank of four ignition coils is connected to the PCM, power, or ground by the following circuits: Low reference Chassis ground Ignition 1 voltage The appropriate IC circuit The PCM triggers an ignition coil by grounding the appropriate IC circuit using information from the crankshaft position (CKP) and camshaft position (CMP) sensors. Diagnostic Aids Important A missing CMP sensor signal may cause a long crank condition. The CKP signal must be available for the engine to start. The CMP signal is not needed to start and operate the engine. The PCM can determine when a cylinder is on either the firing or exhaust stroke by the 24X signal. Remove any debris from the PCM connector surfaces before servicing the PCM. Inspect the PCM connector gaskets when diagnosing or replacing the PCM. Ensure that the gaskets are installed correctly. The gaskets prevent water intrusion into the PCM. For an intermittent condition, refer to Intermittent Conditions . Test Description The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table. Monitoring the misfire current counters determines if a fault is present. A good indication that the fuse is open is all off the misfire current counters are incrementing on one side of the engine. Inspect the ignition positive voltage circuit for a grounded circuit. If the fuse is open and the ignition coil circuits are OK, inspect the injector circuits for being grounded. Step Action Value(s) Yes No Schematic Reference: Engine Controls Schematics Connector End View Reference: Engine Controls Connector End Views or Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector End Views 1 Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls? -- Go to Step 2 Go to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls 2 Attempt to start the engine. Does the engine start and run? -- Go to Step 5 Go to Step 3 3 Observe the Engine Speed parameter with a scan tool. Crank the engine. Does the scan tool indicate RPM is present? -- Go to Step 7 Go to Step 4 4 Is DTC P0335, P0336, or P0351-P0358 also set? -- Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List Go to Step 16 5 Idle the engine. Observe the misfire current counters on the scan tool. Does the scan tool display any misfire current counters incrementing? -- Go to Step 6 Go to Diagnostic Aids 6 Do the misfire current counters increment for most cylinders on one bank of the engine? -- Go to Step 12 Go to Step 7 7 Inspect the spark plug wire for open circuits, cracks, or improper seating of terminals at the spark plug or coil before proceeding with test. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Inspection . Inspect for spark at the plug with the J 26792 Spark Tester or equivalent while cranking. A few sparks, then nothing is considered no spark. Is adequate spark present? -- Go to Step 33 Go to Step 8 8 Measure the spark plug wire resistance. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Inspection . Is the resistance more than the specified value? 1,000 ohms/ft Go to Step 32 Go to Step 9 9 Turn OFF the ignition. Disconnect the inoperative ignition coil. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit of the ignition coil with a test lamp connected to a good ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 10 Go to Step 13 10 Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit at the ignition coil with a test lamp connected to the ground circuit of the ignition coil. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 11 Go to Step 14 11 Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit at the ignition coil with a test lamp connected to the low reference circuit of the ignition coil. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 20 Go to Step 15 12 Inspect for an open INJ 1 or INJ 2 fuse. Is the fuse open? -- Go to Step 29 Go to Step 23 13 Disconnect the main ignition coil 8-way connector. Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit at the ignition coil main 8-way connector using the test lamp connected to battery ground. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 24 Go to Step 23 14 Disconnect the main ignition coil 8-way connector. Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit on the harness side with a test lamp connected to the ground circuit of the ignition coil. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 18 Go to Step 26 15 Disconnect the main ignition coil 8-way connector. Probe the ignition 1 voltage circuit on the harness side with a test lamp connected to the low reference circuit of the ignition coil. Refer to Probing Electrical Connectors in Wiring Systems. Does the test lamp illuminate? -- Go to Step 19 Go to Step 28 16 Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Disconnect the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor. Measure the voltage from the CKP sensor 12-volt reference circuit and a good ground with the DMM. Compare the measured voltage with the system voltage. Is the difference in the voltage more than the specified value? 0.5 V Go to Step 17 Go to Step 30 17 Test for a short to ground in the CKP 12-volt reference circuit or the camshaft position (CMP) sensor 12-volt reference circuit. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 35 Go to Step 22 18 Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the ignition coil 8-way connector. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 35 Go to Step 25 19 Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the ignition coil 8-way connector. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 35 Go to Step 27 20 Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the ignition coil. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 35 Go to Step 31 21 Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the CKP sensor. Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 35 Go to Step 30 22 Test for an intermittent and for a poor connection at the powertrain control module (PCM). Refer to Testing for Intermittent and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you find and correct the condition? -- Go to Step 35 Go to Step 34 23 Repair the open or high resistance in the ignition 1 voltage circuit between the fuse block and the splice. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 24 Repair the open or high resistance in the ignition 1 voltage circuit between the splice and the ignition coil connector. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 25 Repair the open in the ground circuit between the main 8-way connector and the ignition coil. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 26 Repair the open in the ground circuit. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 27 Repair the open in the low reference circuit between the main 8-way connector and the ignition coil. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 28 Repair the open in the low reference circuit between the PCM and the splice. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 29 Repair the ignition 1 voltage for a short to ground. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems. Replace the fuse. Did you complete the repair? -- Go to Step 35 -- 30 Replace the CKP sensor. Refer to Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 35 -- 31 Replace the ignition coil. Refer to Ignition Coil(s) Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 35 -- 32 Replace the spark plug wire. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 35 -- 33 Replace the spark plug. Refer to Spark Plug Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 35 -- 34 Replace the PCM. Refer to Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Replacement . Did you complete the replacement? -- Go to Step 35 -- 35 Attempt to start the engine. Does the engine start and continue to run? -- Go to Step 36 Go to Step 3 36 Clear the DTCs with a scan tool. Turn OFF the engine for 30 seconds. Start the engine. Allow the engine to reach operating temperature. Are there any DTCs that have not been diagnosed? -- Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List System OK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Document ID# 835650 2003 Chevrolet Chevy K Silverado - 4WD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpy Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Dave, Thanks for that flo chart. I do have a set of 5 or 6 manuals for my truck. I have followed the flow chart. Its not as in depth as the information you have provided. I will try the steps i can do on my own. I appreciate you looking that stuff up for me... its been a long time with no truck. I will keep you posted. - Trav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 If you have the GM manuals that info should be in there. I had to cut and paste the above info so you missout on the links and for some reason the yes/no column didn't come out right with it. I bought the shop manual dvds for like $30 shipped off of e-bay and it was a very wise buy since it has every GM manual from like 1987 to current. The only other bad thing is that you can't do some of the tests unless you have a scan tool. Hopefully this info points you in the right direction. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 How's it going? Did you ever figure out what was going on with the truck? The suspense is killing me. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpy Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 How's it going? Did you ever figure out what was going on with the truck? The suspense is killing me.Dave I tried a few of the things. Nothing worked. I did however, find a blown fuse. It goes to my flexilite fans, it keeps blowing. So i just disco'd it for now - that is the least of my worries. I'm going to call a GM dealer a little bit out of town - its the same company as in town, but i was told there is a guy who works there named rosco who is a little more high performance oriented - so he won't be scared to work on my truck. If i get a hold of him and he sounds legit, i will have it towed out there. If not - I'm going to burn it(need any parts). ;) With that said - i will keep you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelleyperformance Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 i still think the ignition disable on the alarm is active and wont turn off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packjh Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 i might know somebody that will buy your truck before you resort to burning it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpy Posted March 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 i might know somebody that will buy your truck before you resort to burning it Make me an offer. She is at Alaska Sales and Service in the Valley right now. I will sell her when she does run anyways. I'm getting out of the Air Force and will be studying at UAA full time - won't have the cash for this truck anymore - Trav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8R Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Did you happen to check the fusible link leaving the fuse box? Do you have dash lights door chimes, radio,? If not the BCM is your prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packjh Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 PM sent, got a reply from friend so let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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