BlackSS04 Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 I have been talking to tuners about there tunes and I have noticed that some go about it differently. For example, I was reccommended that I go with Charlie Wheatley's tune and when i talked to him, he said that he needs to know all my mods, my vin #, my tire size, and my gear ratio for the tune to be correct. As of Bryan at PCM4less doesn't ask any of those questions about the truck. Why does wheatley need to know those things and pcm4less doesn't. I don't understand. someone fill me in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Because Charlie is actually doing his job. As Bryan Herter is no longer a paying vendor here at SSS.com I will go public and recommend AGAINST his work; I was very upset to finally see (with EFILive) the product I purchased from him, my truck has been in serious knock retard for the last two years straight. Saturday I attended the EFILive class in at Xtreme Horsepower and let me tell you it was enlightening on the world of the professional tuner. There is little-to-no best practices in this industry, every individual tuner has their own "method" and some really know what goes on inside an internal combustion engine and others just take their best guesses combined with a little luck and prayer nothing blows-up. Also, there are some tuners that get the performance spot-on but their economy isn't great... it's still buyer beware but now a few really talented guys are starting to come to the surface in this emerging industry. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSS04 Posted May 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) thanks for the info P. I think I am going to go with Charlie Wheatley's tune. I am heard many good things from him over their on PT.net and from some people on here. And he really seems to know his shit too. Edited May 14, 2007 by BlackSS04 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JF-03-SS Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 I learned alot about my tune from pcmforless when I got it retuned by someone else. Brian may know what he is doing (like Mr P said) but I had alot of KR as well. Brian puts his tunes right on the edge, i.e. timing and air/fuel. When you get KR your pcm will pull a set amount of timing per * of KR. So real agressive timing may really make you lose more power. I would find a shop that can do the tuning vs. a mail order a tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivierakid55 Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 im not sure how on the edge PCMforless's tunes really are. ive ridden in daryl's (2006silverss) who has similar stuff done to his truck minus the trans/converter upgrades and headers and i didnt think his tune was nearly as aggressive as mine form nelson. his sure rides and brakes better than mine though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 The KR wasn't the only reason for my statement about my PCM4Less product - there were several other technical issues with the tune. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 The KR wasn't the only reason for my statement about my PCM4Less product - there were several other technical issues with the tune. Mr. P. Mr. P - Send me that serial number so we can get you on your way to perfecting that tune! And as stated before, there is no one way to make a tune. There are definitely some "best practices", both with engine and transmission tuning, which I know that myself and many others try to follow. But since we're dealing with a set of tools that are only inputs to the equations, inherently multiple methods will evolve to achieve similar results. The difference being that the method that is most accurate will yield the most consistent and reliable results, while those that are not proper (IFR "tuning", PE "tuning", Major MAF Calibration modification, etc) will yield a desired result only in certain conditions. I hope that as you dig into your software you'll begin to fully appreciate the tools that you now have and use them properly. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JF-03-SS Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 im not sure how on the edge PCMforless's tunes really are. ive ridden in daryl's (2006silverss) who has similar stuff done to his truck minus the trans/converter upgrades and headers and i didnt think his tune was nearly as aggressive as mine form nelson. his sure rides and brakes better than mine though. Mine was on the edge, which can be a bad thing. Like I said about the KR, if you have like 2* of kr the pcm will pull timing at a set amount (don't know how much but it is more then you think) I was getting 7-8* which was really hurting me. After my tuner adj. my timing and a/f ratio I am seeing less then 1.5* at wot. I picked up .3 tenths and 2mph in the 1/4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Mine was on the edge, which can be a bad thing. Like I said about the KR, if you have like 2* of kr the pcm will pull timing at a set amount (don't know how much but it is more then you think) I was getting 7-8* which was really hurting me. After my tuner adj. my timing and a/f ratio I am seeing less then 1.5* at wot. I picked up .3 tenths and 2mph in the 1/4. 2* of KR is 2* less timing. KR is spark retard due to knock. Over time, excessive knock will cause the PCM to run close to the low octane spark table, potentially yielding lower performance and gas mileage. In a nutshell, knock is primarily caused by one of two things or a combination of both. Too much ignition advance (advance well beyond best torque), insufficient fuel or both. You ONLY need to run enough timing needed to make best torque. Beyond that, there is a cushion where you can potentially run more timing without knock, but no extra power will be gained. Therefore, a tune that is "on the edge" is really on the edge in only one sense, and that is detonation/engine safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JF-03-SS Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 2* of KR is 2* less timing. KR is spark retard due to knock. Over time, excessive knock will cause the PCM to run close to the low octane spark table, potentially yielding lower performance and gas mileage. In a nutshell, knock is primarily caused by one of two things or a combination of both. Too much ignition advance (advance well beyond best torque), insufficient fuel or both. You ONLY need to run enough timing needed to make best torque. Beyond that, there is a cushion where you can potentially run more timing without knock, but no extra power will be gained. Therefore, a tune that is "on the edge" is really on the edge in only one sense, and that is detonation/engine safety. I was told that the pcm will pull more timing to protect the motor. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 I was told that the pcm will pull more timing to protect the motor. Am I wrong? Was probably just stated incorrectly. The PCM will pull only the amount of timing specified in the KR PID, so if you see 7* of KR, then your run spark is being decreased by 7* at that point. What the PCM does tend to do though is trigger a higher KR value than is needed to stop the knock from occurring. So, there may be an occurence where a 7* KR spike occurs, but in actuality, only a 4* reduction in spark timing was needed to quell the knock. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JF-03-SS Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Was probably just stated incorrectly. The PCM will pull only the amount of timing specified in the KR PID, so if you see 7* of KR, then your run spark is being decreased by 7* at that point. What the PCM does tend to do though is trigger a higher KR value than is needed to stop the knock from occurring. So, there may be an occurence where a 7* KR spike occurs, but in actuality, only a 4* reduction in spark timing was needed to quell the knock. Make sense? That does. I am sure I misunderstood. There is so much to tuning. I was just so happy that I saw real results w/ the retune. I wish someone like you was around here that could take my truck and get it dialed in perfect. I think my 1/4 mile time is one of the best w/ the least amount of mods. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firervfd37 Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 i dont know if anyone has read my previous post about my engine fan running on high alot more often latley in 65 degree weather...but i just put my stock pcm back in and i havent had a problem with the fan yet....could there be a problem with my custom one from pcmforless about a year ago? if so who would u recommend to get my custom one redone by? any help please haha i miss my harder shifts alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 i dont know if anyone has read my previous post about my engine fan running on high alot more often latley in 65 degree weather...but i just put my stock pcm back in and i havent had a problem with the fan yet....could there be a problem with my custom one from pcmforless about a year ago? if so who would u recommend to get my custom one redone by? any help please haha i miss my harder shifts alot If you wanted somethign in person... I could see a trip to Ocean City happening sometime this summer for me... Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firervfd37 Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 how much would u charge if your were out this way? also do u think i should worry about taking my truck to the dealership tomm. about my fan? or could it be the tune after a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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