RembaSS 1SG Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Thought I would put this one out to the masses. In short, I recently installed a Vortech SC that is a few years old. In the process of this d-i-y (see my build thread for the drama) I was able to get it started and at higher rpm, black smoke clears out of the pipes but at idle nearly dies. Thought if I took it around the corner it would run better. When at running temp (hot) it dies and now will not start. I was having EVAP and Misfire codes; every now and then I would get a charging system warning. Could the truck run at higher rpms with an incorrectly wired 255 lph fuel pump? the 60 lb injectors were wired correctly (about the easiest thing I did). I think I am pouring fuel into the cylinders because I just went through about 10 gallons in about 30 minutes of test fires. Everything seems to be wired right but the truck doesn't seem to want to relearn idle. I have tried every tune on the Diablo tuner. Are there any ideas out there. My wife has jokingly threatened to haul the truck off and buy me the Camaro that I wanted..but I feel there is still life in that truck. Please help... Also anyone around the Killeen, TX (Fort Hood) area that knows a great HP mechanic. Sunshine performance continually has a backlog of two weeks. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
04CHASE Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 its all in your tune . you can only do so much with the handheld. im betting your fuel tables are way off for the injectors your running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) OK this is my guess - you have not tuned the truck's PCM yet for the change in injectors. The issues you describe are probably all tune-related, specifically the injector tables in the PCM. Do not let the (new) blower fool you - remember that with a centrifugal blower the engine at idle is under the *exact* same operating situation as N/A - same MAP sensor reading, throttle position, etc so it would run like this without the blower too. I am NOT expert in this topic of injector tuning, but at the moment am learning as I go on my own truck because I have also installed a set of aftermarket injectors - guidelines I have learned so far are: 1) the Injector Flow Rate table (IFR) educates the PCM how 'large' the injectors are, since you have more than doubled actual injector flow you must likewise more than double the PCM's IFR table or else it is going to hold the new (larger) injector open just as long as the original injectors = the PCM is mistakenly dumping in twice the amount of fuel into the motor than it believes it is - the PCM has no idea yet that the injectors are twice as large. With my truck, after I got the IFR table even close to correct I was able to easily start the truck (hot or cold), idle, and even drive it to the gas station and back, but the motor was still doggy and after idling 2-mins it would develop a surging idle and bounce off the stall-saver (manifold is loading-up at idle) BUT at least the truck was driveable. 2) You will need to adjust more than just the Injector Flow Rate (IFR) table, you will have to adjust the min/max pulse width tables as well as the injector offset tables to get a good idle. Seasoned tuners have all these tables values worked out for the Siemens 60-pounders (in addition to the IFR value). You might also have to fudge with the throttle cracker/follower tables. Don't give up hope, it sounds like you have all the right parts and you just need the right tune. I would suggest you call Justin Gadberry (Blackbear Performance) he can send you a black box that logs your truck, and from that he can examine your truck's behavior and tune accordingly. Mr. P. PS - VERY IMPORTANT before you begin chasing tuning problems, you have to verify that your fuel pressure is 58-psi and (after tuning) is steady throughout the engine's operating range; don't assume that it's right. Also, are you running the MAF? or going speed-density (MAF-less)? Edited October 3, 2009 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RembaSS 1SG Posted October 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Wow, and I thought this beast was going to be plug and play. LOL. I am using the OEM MAF still. The only difference is I am using the IAT wires from the MAF for the IAT on the Intake tube before the TB. Everything you and CHASE wrote was right on. Your description of the injector flow rate makes perfect sense. I was able to drive it about a 1/4 mile before it died. Luckily it is at a buddies house. I will give Justin a call Monday. Thanks again for your help. I am also using Granitelli spark plug wires and Bosch Platinum +4 plugs and thought that might be the problem. Were you the Mr. P from Stephenville, TX I met on here a few years back? I graduated from Tarleton State down here in Killeen, TX in 2001 a few years before I retired. If so thanks again for your help. Thanks Chase. That and Mr. P's post are making better sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RembaSS 1SG Posted October 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Okay, so after an hour's more research I figured out my stock injectors were 25.7 so we will say 26. However, I have seen 24's on some threads. So if the math is correct that is (65-26)/26*100 or a slope* 150 increase. That is definitely way off what was programmed into it. Thanks again. I will check this thread first thing in the morning before I go out to rescue her. I have not played with the DiabloSport Predator at all...wanted to get the truck rolling first. Thanks, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Hey make sure you're running a custom tune w/ that Preditor too. If you bought the kit used, then the previous owner had a custom tune developed by DiabloSport. Don't run either the 87 or performance tunes. You will destroy your engine under boost. Timing being a key element here too, I think they'll limit it to like 16 degrees or so under boost. . That is why my super charger isn't on my SS yet, I sent out my 7195 yesterday for updates. You probably need to send in your proggy for updates too. My kit has an FMU and uses the stock injectors too tho unlike your 60lb injectors. Hop on to Diablosport.com and seek a tune. They'll hook you up. MAKE SURE TO MENTION THE 60LB injectors. It will be listed as "custom tune" on the menu. Then you can modify parameters later such as injector slope if need be. Good luck and welcome back! Edited October 3, 2009 by finallyss (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Oh yeah... you'll need to get the adapter (diablo to usb) and AC adapter (12 vdc... duh) and email them your stock tune. They go in to detail on how to do this on their site.I hope they'll do it for you and then you can send in for updates. What REALLY sucks is you have to have the tuner clear to get the updates. so that means no tune in your SS. It'll be worth it in the end. ok that's it... maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymz Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 like previously stated.. Get a Custom tune.. Wheatley is right down in texas Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman31 Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Sounds like it is time for some logging, and some custom tune work from one of our vendors here who specialize in late model GM trucks. STAY AWAY FROM HANDHELDS, they are a recipe for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RembaSS 1SG Posted October 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 IT IS ALIVE, ALIVE, ALIVE (BROOOHAAAHHAAA)!!!!!. Everyones advice throughout this site was right on the money....I just had to ask the right questions. I think I will produce a lessons learned for those interested in putting an older Vortech into the 05 AWD (not recommended for the novice). I know I am one. Some modifications were necessary. Last night the battery died trying to start it on the old tune. So I went and got a Yellow Top Optima this morning from Autozone. That and the new calculations and I was up. I can now relocate the "relocated" battery from the truck bed to the HD tray, my other battery would not fit. The old tune was currently set for -2% injector slope and I was only able to take it to the tuner max of 100%. I thought I needed around 150% but actually with some research I needed (60-28)/28*100= 114%. This is different from last night. This 114% is much closer to what is actually running in the vehicle. Found a lose vacuum line as well so I went pass. valve cover to air intake directly over the manifold. It sounds much better, its quiet until you get on it. I am excited. My wife is relieved and wants to jump on my excitement bus and drive it.... Thanks again everyone. You all ROCK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadowns Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 First, let me say THANKS FOR SERVING our Country. Blessings to you and your family. Second, I highly recommend that you get a in live tune from someone that you can trust. This is NOT a plug and play install as you now know. and the tune will make or break you in the long run. Play it safe and cool, stay out of WOT until you KNOW that you have a SAFE tune. One of my concerns is that you have run a lot of fuel through the truck and it was NOT burning it all. This will wash not the cylinder walls, and cause wear. You should change to oil as soon as you know that the fuel problem is cured. Have fun with the new found power. CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 You are still modified well beyond a mail order tune (unless there is custom logging involved) IMHO. Find a good tuner ASAP to run specific logs and update your tune for the values noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 ...Were you the Mr. P from Stephenville, TX I met on here a few years back? ... YUP! I finally had it out with my father and left Stephenville a year ago; we'll have to meet-up at the next GTG in Ennis ...My wife is relieved and wants to jump on my excitement bus and drive it.... Ok that was a good one, I'm gonna steal that line Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuel123disuza Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 you are having tuning problem.....i am not near by so dont have much idea of it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RembaSS 1SG Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks for the PM reference changing the oil. I noticed the engine was running way hot. I checked the oil and it "sheeted" off the dipstick and smell like...you guessed it gasoline. I freaked, went to get some Mobil one and changed the oil. I put 5 qts of royal purple in and got about 6 qts of a gasoline/oil mixture that looked like 2:1 ratio black water. Fortunately I only ran the engine that way for a few miles so I do not think I damaged anything. It never leaked out of the gaskets nor did it leak into the coolant. Beforehand I was hearing engine parts and the supercharger, afterward silence (okay maybe a little idler noise). I have not had it in boost. We have a Diablo CMR local here in Killeen, TX so I will seek him out this afternoon. Only funny thing that has happened since is my AC now blows cold air on the passenger side and scolding hot air on the driver side. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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