zippy Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'm not one to post much on what I'm working on because on a regular basis I basicly work on the stuff that would be a project for others.I'm building a 408 for my 2002 Tahoe. I bought the truck a couple years back from a friend who I had buy it for me from a police auction. The truck is a 2002 Tahoe with police package. In 2002 there really wasn't much special about the police options other than 130 amp alternator, police spotlight, leather rear seat, cloth power front seats, rubber floor covering, 245/75R16 tires with steel wheels, etc, etc. The 2002 didn't even have a locking differential standard and could have been optioned with a 4.8L. This specific one though had a 3.42 gear with a 5.3L and an open differential together with a 4L60E. Shortly after buying the Hoe I decided that a 6.0L would be a must have in there. I bought an LQ4 with around 70k on it and took it apart once I got that home. I then pulled the 862 castings off of the 5.3L originally from the Hoe and sent them off to Baker Engineering. There they installed 2" Ferrea stainless intake valves and milled them .015" as well as replaced a few valve guides that were worn out of spec. Once I got the heads back I installed LS6 springs onto them and prepped them to be installed. I chose the LS6 springs for cost reason as well as life of the valves. This motor was to be a durable work horse and I didn't want a big valve spring beating the valve seats up that I'd just had installed. Keep in mind that the 5.3L heads come with 1.89 intake valves and the stock 317 casting 6.0L heads come with a 2" intake valve. The intake port on the 5.3L cylinder head isn't as big or perfect for flow numbers, but I figured for a small cost the intake valve size being upped to 2" would get me in the ball park with the flow of the 317. My biggest reason for the 862 casting was the chamber. They are 61.5cc stock and the 317 casting is 72cc raising my compression with the milling and valve size change to if I recall correctly 10.7/10.8:1 or so. It's been a while, but I remember it being around there. I would have ported the heads, but time was a huge factor since the Hoe was to be the puppy hauler and do it all vehicle when my S10 couldn't be called on. My 06' black truck is nothing more than a car to me with a bed and is not used for working in any way shape or form. My next choice was camshaft. I wanted a cam that would work with my LS6 springs, make great torque to work with the weight, 3.42 gear, stock torque converter, etc. I decided on an XR275HR or TR224 on a 112LSA and it just so happened that my friend Joe Wertz had one of the TR224/112's for sale. With nothing more than the camshaft and unported, but modified 5.3L heads on the LQ4 the Tahoe made unbelievable torque and hp from those simple mods and of course some tuning. In Michigan the truck was ran primarily on 93 octane, but I really wanted to run it on E85. The good part was that the Hoe happend to be a factory flex fuel truck making it very convenient. In a roll race against the black truck they were pretty well dead even from 30-100mph or so in three back to back runs. Now living down here I only run the Hoe on E85 except on some road trips where I can't get that as easy. I've also added a stock gov-lock to it from my 06' when I took it out of that to put in my Detroit Locker. I ended up also installing a set of Pacesetter coated long tubes last year which hooks to the stock muffler still using the Pacesetter 3" y-pipe. One downfall road trip took all of my 6.0L fun and crushed it. On a road trip to California I stopped and filled up with E85 on the way back home and things went downhill. Their magical E85 tank was accidentally filled with diesel fuel which I put in my Hoe. That caused the truck to begin to over heat on the way home (I pulled over before it really did overheat, but it did get hot). Once home it fouled all 8 spark plugs to the point of barely running and smoking. The worse part was it managed to put about 4 quarts of that crap in the oil in the crankcase. Being a very busy time at work and a point where the wife and I really needed both vehicles I just didn't force myself to make the time to change the oil. Living in an apartment limited my options, but I should have forced myself to do it. This stuff created a rubber like substance in the oil pan which plugged up the pickup tube. Apparently E85, Diesel, and Mobil 1 doesn't mix well. I've since pulled the motor, installed new main bearings, rod bearings, oil pump, etc. and put it back in the truck. Everything runs fine and power is still excellent, but it's time to do something about it as well as give me a better test mule for certain parts given my new job allows me all the time I could ever want on the dyno. While the motor was out I did a freshen on the trans with a few upgrades, but still a stock converter. The driveshaft has also been just freshened with new u-joints and a spot on balance at our driveshaft shop the company I work for also owns. Now that most of the backstory is gone through keeping in mind that it will still likely beat my 06' (both got headers last year, but the Tahoe gained more from them) and that ran a 13.59 here in Arizona full weight on the daily driven 20" wheels. 05' LQ4 block Pep 4" stroke crank Pep 6.125" connnecting rods Mahle pistons 4.030" bore: flattop with -4cc valve relief. Part number LS1105030F04. With my current heads compression will be measured and calculated, but should be around 12.2:1. Mahle rings 4.035" bore (file to fit) Melling 10296 oil pump I'll list others when I'm at home. Right now I'm just up and can't sleep so I figured I'd get my build post started. I'll likely change only the short block using the heads and camshaft from the 6.0L to start with and every and any change will be dyno'd. The initial gain should be around 100ft lbs of torque and 30-40hp from the stroke, compression, and other minor differences. Lack of airflow may skew those numbers a bit with the stock muffler and stock throttle body. I plan to do the new style water pump which will allow me to try the many different intake manifold types available. I would really like a Fast LSxRT for it, but will likely settle for the cathedral port 4 bolt truck intake and a 90mm throttle body. The truck currently has Pacesetter 1 3/4" headers on it and I'd like to switch to American Racing 1 7/8" headers and also dyno the gain. In general it's going to be a test mule for parts as well as be the excellent daily driver it has been since just after I bought it. I plan to update this quite a bit later, but for now this will get some info out there for my friends to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sound like a fun and interesting build for the hoe. Can't wait for some dyno numbers and track times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueAKSSS Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 That sounds like a great build zippy! I'm in for more updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Roknic Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I was going to say good luck on your build.... and then realiszed who I was talking to, more like have fun with it. I'm also switching to 1 7/8 racing header from a 1 3/4...... be interesting to see the difference they make on the dyno. Your going to suprise alot of unsuspecting people with that hoe..... should be alot of fun when your done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Glad to see you post the build up buddy. Should i have any of the parts you could use let me know. If you want that tbss tb or my old 226 cam, its yours. Still on gm head gaskets and bolts? With the higher compression(i should say awesome compression) are you going to lose the "flex fuel" ability? On a flex fuel tune, can you pull more and more timing as it reads less and less ethanol in the system? Or are you going to just load a real safe tune if you and wife take a road trip and get stuck putting 93 in. I know Zippy, rapid fire questions, your favorite thing, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcsilveradoss Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Glad to see you post the build up buddy. Should i have any of the parts you could use let me know. If you want that tbss tb or my old 226 cam, its yours. Still on gm head gaskets and bolts? With the higher compression(i should say awesome compression) are you going to lose the "flex fuel" ability? On a flex fuel tune, can you pull more and more timing as it reads less and less ethanol in the system? Or are you going to just load a real safe tune if you and wife take a road trip and get stuck putting 93 in. I know Zippy, rapid fire questions, your favorite thing, lol quality right there Hopefully you get enough time with it Mike with all the rest of us blowing up your phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procelll Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Im actually curious on what shadowsniper asked about the flex fuel. Its not available here but still be interesting to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yes I am going to use stock GM head gaskets and bolts. As for the tuning, it will be able to run on the 91 octane as well as E85. The OS fortunatly has the ability to add timing when the ethanol content is higher. I'll post a picture of that table. What I will do is tune the truck on both and calibrate the compensation difference. What this will do is use the ethanol content sensor that the truck is equipped with and when I am on basicly gas the truck will run on my base high octane table. When the content sensor detects a higher content of ethanol it will go to the ethanol adder table and add in the timing I have set in. The downside is that it's honestly a pain in the ass to do this part. HP Tuners hasn't added this table in so I have to edit that part in Tunercat. Pictures coming tomorrow. Went to Vegas this weekend and had to pick up the engine from the machine shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) ahhhh, i see. So you can get the best of both worlds even with over 12.1. I didn't know if any amount of timing would safely run that compression, you know me, I'd love a 12.1 na motor. When do you think assembly will start? Edited June 20, 2011 by shadowsniper3006 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bfast Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hopefully you get enough time with it Mike with all the rest of us blowing up your phone this lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 glad to see you are still work'n that cam. and I have just about nailed donm my VE table (insert joke) I know I am a slacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 glad to see you are still work'n that cam. and I have just about nailed donm my VE table (insert joke) I know I am a slacker. You're not a slacker, just a self admitted beginner. Thanks again for the cam and the special deal you gave me on it for sure. Assembly will begin this week. Today or tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Connecting rod box and part number Crankshaft box and part number Piston pin location and ring groove Piston skirt Grafal coating Oil Pump backside Oil Pump front side with new style countersunk bolts Oil Pump box with part number Connecting rods Piston box and part number Piston picture Pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 ummm, whats up with the pics? HUUUUGE window, small pictures. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Some questions that have been asked of me and I'll post answers here. The crankshaft and connecting rods are a brand called PEP. (Precision Engine Parts) They are a company located in Las Vegas and yes, the actual product is made in China. Something to remember there though is that the Callies Compstar, Eagle, and Scat cranks are also all made over there. I've worked on many vehicles with this brand of crank and rods and never once a failure with them. One of our customers for example had this crank and rod setup in a 383 form of a LS6 and it had spent plenty of time being ran up to 7200 while racing. The stock crank is good for 1000hp so I've never been nervous about using this crank and rod setup in a moderate power setup. I'm not shooting for Chase's power range here. If I was I'd do a Callies Dragonslayer which happens to be all made in the U.S.A. The crank cost me $450 brand new through my wholesale account. The price for them has went up a bit since then, but it still very reasonable for a forged stroker crank that will hold all the power I plan to put through it. The only change made to the crank was the reluctor. I replaced the reluctor it came with to a brand new GM 24x reluctor. The rod price was $260.92 with shipping through my wholesale account. These are 6.125", forged, and come with ARP bolts. The pistons I specificly picked and was able to fortunatly get them through my wholesale account with the same company as the rods and crank. They cost me $570 and included the rings which are a very good quality ring. I wanted the compression as high as I could get without going to a dome piston and if possible I wanted it in Mahle brand if possible. This piston I chose is the 4032 material which is the more common material for a street type of motor. They have less of an issue with expansion which is part of the reason they are used in motors designed for long term durability. Here is some info on the coatings from Mahle. MAHLE Motorsports’ proprietary Grafal® anti-friction skirt coating is like no other on the market. It is graphite impregnated to reduce drag like many other skirt coatings, but this is where the similarities end. The screen print application provides superior adhesion and is designed to last 100,000+ miles. Because Grafal® is a compressible membrane with a unique cushioning property, harsh contact between the piston skirt and the bore is dramatically reduced. Resulting in much less wear on the bore and significantly reduces piston skirt fatigue. Phosphate coating provides the grey appearance to the MAHLE piston. This dry lubricant coating (not to be confused with a thermal film coating) provides a lubricant film in the pin bores and ring grooves until the oiling system of the engine reaches operating pressure; particularly useful during the initial start-up or break-in of engines to protect against galling and microwelding. The piston crown is still machineable. The oil pump I went with is the Melling 10296 which is pretty well the bad ass of bolt on pumps for the LS motors. My goal with the motor like many others I've build is to have at minimum the same oil pressure as a stock motor. Many times I have gotten into vehicles with strokers and found them to have less oil pressure than a stock motor and that just drives me nuts. When you go to a 4" stroke that increases the oil galley volume and as a result requires more oil pump. Most strokers I've worked on/tuned on that were built by shops new to the LS world have this problem and I mean to about a 80% rate. I constantly see low oil pressure on anything that's not a stock motor. Lack of enough oil pump and huge bearing clearance is the most common problem to this. The machine shop I chose has been doing LS motors for a while and made sure my bearing clearances were where they needed to be. My only issue is going to be possibly having too much oil pressure. If I do I'll change the spring in the pump from the one it comes with to the lower pressure spring. In the past I'd used the Melling 10295 pump for this and when the bearing clearances were correct oil pressure was fine and within 10% of stock all the way through. At this point these are my costs. Keep in mind I do get wholesale costs, but the point is that a 408 can be built on a budget. Machine shop bill. $927 Connecting rods. $260.92 Crankshaft. $450 Reluctor $14.70 Pistons. $570 Oil Pump. trade out, but $131.95 is retail for it currently at Summit Racing I will be posting more as I go along. For other motors I've built or been involved with I pretty well don't post anything on them. This time I will make it a bit different in posting what parts I will be using, why I chose them, and what my cost was on them. Being in the business I do get better deals on stuff, but in general most of what I buy can be had for a price very close to what I pay if you shop around. Feel free to ask questions. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll have the shortblock together. Side Note: I'll post machine shop work done to explain my expenses there also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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