shadowsniper3006 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Far as i know, your base airflow is the only ECT related table for idle controls. It's doing it at 180 and coming to a stop but its not doing it at 190 coming to a stop? If you can get to 180 and 190 at idle in gear, check your short term idle trims to see what its doing, that shoudl verify the base air. Did you go through the TB scaler to match the dynamic airflow vs base airflow vs no correction in the idle trims? What is your throttle cracker speed set to enable and disable? I've been chasing this on Joes truck now for so long and i still can't get it. Things to look at are, overspeed, underspeed, base idle timing, tb scaler, correct base air, correct injector info, IAc steps. The base air and scaler i know how to make right now and the injector info, everything else is still a huge learnign curve. I've been trying to make large changes to each at a time so i can see what exactly each does, when i make small changes i can't really see if it helped to go up or down, but a large change(might be too much) but you can see it helped the motor or hurt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 went to the U.P. and put two tanks thru it, not logging but driving. it does the surging when I let off the throttle at low speeds and at no speed. I am frustrated as hell trying to think thru what is making it unhappy. so with that its not just the idle settings if its doing it when I let off the the gas so does that lead me at the ETC? If I get 1000 hits when I log the desired air, how could the base air flow be incorrect or need more? and I was looking at my timing tables and they are all basically the same at the areas I am having issues, but it does seem to pull 4-5 degrees of timing, in the log can see the surging as an oscillation in timing, dont remeber the exact but maybe 16 and surges back to 20 (give or take) My wife smiled when I told her " I almost have it fixed" I am guessing some the crusing surging might have been from DFCO being turned off for tuning??? I wanted to work on this last weekend but my interweb was down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Joe if i knew the answer, I'd help you out in a second. Last thing i thought i'd try is adding more throttle cracker airflow in the lower mph areas. I also thought you could raise the throttle cracker enable and disable MPH to see if it surges when its using throttle cracker or adaptive idle. Maybe one more thing that can solve the problem or eliminate as the possibility of the problem. Its very frustrating and stressful to not know how to fix something, especially when some one else is counting on you, I don't know how guys like Zippy deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thanks Brad. I need to make a list of stuff I need to check, then make some tunes with each item changed and see if it goes inn the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) threw two tunes in last night and I think I am close. what I did was to copy the 800rpm row of my VE to my 400rpm, then did drive to see. Most of the surging is gone. I am going to continue to dial it in as I seem to be over this hump. Gonna put the last log into another VE update but I am happy again. I think it was getting some very different values when it dropped low in the RPMS, now that they are closer I can feel it is not so bad. Edited July 11, 2011 by detjoe (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 two more drives and I think my VE is good, under 5 for all/most values. SO Iam guessing I am ready for the next step?? I need to do some WOT logging and see if I need to change the VE at WOT. I have been meaning to post my last log and tune, but I usuallt plug the laptop in and fall asleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 For the first couple of WOT runs on the street, it's nice to have someone with you. You can drive and make sure your being as safe as possible while doing it, while the other person looks at KR and the AFR...and if anything goes wrong he tells you to stop the run right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 looking at the ETC scalar it's stock, or what is was for the 78mm TB (0.0205), I am going to change it(0.0170), and go over the VE and idle again. BUT its f'n 100 here today so I think my tuning is going to be limited till it cools down a little. especially getting a good temp range in my idle logging How much do you think temp plays when tuning? Will super high temps skew the tuing session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 looking at the ETC scalar it's stock, or what is was for the 78mm TB (0.0205), I am going to change it(0.0170), and go over the VE and idle again. BUT its f'n 100 here today so I think my tuning is going to be limited till it cools down a little. especially getting a good temp range in my idle logging How much do you think temp plays when tuning? Will super high temps skew the tuing session? Don't just change the scaler to a random number, if your base air is correct you adjust the scaler untill your idle trims go 0. The truck may be down on HP, but as fasr as driveablity goes i don't think it matter. Zippy is in like 112 temps and i imagine CHP is in some hot stuff to. There are tables to pull timing at the hot IAT's, and as long as your coolant system works your base air should never really be effected. The motor should never go over the area you have already adjusted for. I doubt i could see anything, but I'd still ove to look through your tune if you don't mind posting it or emailing me. The more a guy sees the more you can learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I am lost with how to clooect data that helps give the new scalar value?? I found what DrX and Redheadsupra have posted, and used the value that was used for the truck 87mm TB. I dont see the PID for STIT?? anyway put the new scalar in, and did a log. truck was not happy at idle LOL So I bet my baseairflow id off now, so I will log the airflow again when the truck cools off. I dont leave my laptop or tuners cable in the truck when I am at work...better safe, so I am on my truck computer, at work and gonna post a few logs and my last tune....I used to worry about sharing someone else's tune but know what I know, its not gonna help to just have a 'tune' you need to know how to work it So Here is this morning's newest tune, log, and the config I use. and an older Log. newestwithVEchangeslowRPM4.hpt hot1scalar.hpl Zippy truck imperial.cfg back3.hpl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) i have a config I'll post later that i used to set base air, scaler and watch the idle trims. I don't have HPT infront of me, but I'll post later the path to the idle trims. And if i read your post right, don't adjust the base air to the new scaler. The base air should equal the dynamic air, when it does....thats it, its set. Then if the motor is still using idle trims to correct, it means it doesn't know the proper amount of air that is coming in through the TB. The scaler is what you use to tell the tb that this much air is coming in and your base air numbers are good, so basically your telling the truck..."trust me" i know those base air numbers are good. I know the scaler should be a mathmatical number, but it isn't 100% right. Once this stuff is done and correct, if it still surges, the problem is somewhere else. I just have no idea where, yet Edited July 21, 2011 by shadowsniper3006 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 looking at the ETC scalar it's stock, or what is was for the 78mm TB (0.0205), I am going to change it(0.0170), and go over the VE and idle again. BUT its f'n 100 here today so I think my tuning is going to be limited till it cools down a little. especially getting a good temp range in my idle logging How much do you think temp plays when tuning? Will super high temps skew the tuing session? Stock 78mm = .0208 (the stock value I got from EFILive, HPTuners might have it as .0205) 78/87=.8966 .8966*.0208=.0186 = your new scalar or .8966*.0205=.0184 = your new scalar this should be your new scalar and with this value set, then you can proceed to continue your tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsniper3006 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Stock 78mm = .0208 (the stock value I got from EFILive, HPTuners might have it as .0205) 78/87=.8966 .8966*.0208=.0186 = your new scalar or .8966*.0205=.0184 = your new scalar this should be your new scalar and with this value set, then you can proceed to continue your tuning. Do you leave it as a hard set number? Like i was telling Joe, when i had it set as a hard number i set the base air to what i thought was a hard number and then the idle trims where still adding/pulling? Edited July 21, 2011 by shadowsniper3006 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chpspecial Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Do you leave it as a hard set number? Like i was telling Joe, when i had it set as a hard number i set the base air to what i thought was a hard number and then the idle trims where still adding/pulling? From what I was taught and my readings, yes as the scalar should not change. With it been a hardset number, you should be able to tune in your idle sooner. but that is all theoretical and in real life its not that quick and easy to dial in the idle. Especially with bigger cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 my cam is not that big. the truck is dying at a stop, so I am guessing it needs the baseairflow done again. it does not hunt for the idle, it just drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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