Ring End Gap

[MID12sSSS]

Im in the middle of building my forged 370, and just started filing the new Total Seal piston rings to the desired gap. I am going to run the maggie at 8psi with methanol injection.

The Ring Gap formula that came in the box for a "Blown Gas" motor is;

Top Ring=Bore X .0055"

Second Ring= Bore X .0035"

Oil Ring Rail= Min. of .015"

 

So that gives me

Top=.22"

Second=.014"

Oil Ring Rail=.015

(Im runing a high volume oil pump so figure min. spec for oil ring would be fine.)

 

My question is, well, i filed just a little too much and ended up with

 

Top=.028"

Second=.019"

Oil= .015"

 

Im sure these gaps will be just fine, as they are still in spec, but just thought id ask some opinions on whether these gaps are ok or not for my application. Id hate to order more rings, as they were $200+, and it'd set me back another week.

 

The biggest gap formula on the card is for a 150+hp Nitrous application, which is;

Top=Bore X .008"

2nd=Bore X .0055"

Oil= Min. .015"

 

Giving me

Top= .032"

2nd= .022"

Oil= Min. .015"

 

So i am below this, and while searching the web, i found the LQ4 has a top ring gap of .034".

I should be good with these numbers, right?

Haha these are my first file-to-fit rings ive installed and i just wanna double check myself. Dont want any blow-by or loss of compression. But i dont think .006" would give me any issues. But on the bright side, im within the "up to 150hp nitrous" specs if i ever decide to install a bottle. Haha. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[AKSSS]

Not sure if this helps. I am sitting at home so I grabbed my build sheet. I used "total seal rings" part number csh2010-035. My pistons were .030. For some reason they didn't write anything on my sheet for the 1st ring. The second ring was set at .018. And for the oil ring all they wrote was "ok". What the heck? So I guess your second compression ring is right close to mine. Don't know if this helps but here it is.

[MID12sSSS]

Haha they didnt even spec your top ring?! Yeah. We have the same piston rings and bore size of 4.030. So it sounds like my second ring is close to yours like you said, and the "OK" for your oil ring im assuming is because they didnt have to file it. Im not filing mine either because just straight drop in they are at spec.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. Hoping to start breaking in the new motor this weekend. Haha. I picked up some Joe Gibbs break in oil to help me out with that.

Edited January 16, 2013 by MID12sSSS (see edit history)

[AKSSS]

After just reading your Parts list in your sig. We have pretty much the exact same rotating assembly. I got it all from summit. But my pistons were 15cc dished. Im guessing your are probably around 2cc or flat? I really wish I had a higher compression. This thing your putting together should be an animal!!

Now we just need to get Zippy or Wheatley to fly up here for some live tunes, huh?!

[MID12sSSS]

That would be sick! I was talking to P3 Import Autowerks, the guys in Anchorage with the AWD dyno, and they said our wheel base was too long for their dyno, but they can still do live tunes from driving, logging data, etc. I know it wouldnt be nearly as nice as a live tune from zippy, but its better than a mail order tune IMO. I was thinking of picking up HP Tuners just so i can send zippy logged data and have it tuned that way. Sucks being up here in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah i went with Diamond's -2cc pistons. I built the motor around the maggie, so i saw no need to drop compression, as im only running 8psi. If i come across a good deal on a TVS, ill be pulling the motor, getting a new crank and pistons, and building a 408 anyway, so ill drop compression when that day comes. Haha then ill have to do a 4l80 swap, beef up rear end, etc. Haha. Once you're crankin out that much HP, you gotta beef up the whole frickin truck!

This thing your putting together should be an animal!!

Haha thanks, but im sure you'd spank my truck any day of the weak with the boost you're putting out, low compression or not! Once that turbo lag gets drowned out by boost, you're gone!

[AKSSS]

That would be sick! I was talking to P3 Import Autowerks, the guys in Anchorage with the AWD dyno, and they said our wheel base was too long for their dyno, but they can still do live tunes from driving, logging data, etc. I know it wouldnt be nearly as nice as a live tune from zippy, but its better than a mail order tune IMO. I was thinking of picking up HP Tuners just so i can send zippy logged data and have it tuned that way. Sucks being up here in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah i went with Diamond's -2cc pistons. I built the motor around the maggie, so i saw no need to drop compression, as im only running 8psi. If i come across a good deal on a TVS, ill be pulling the motor, getting a new crank and pistons, and building a 408 anyway, so ill drop compression when that day comes. Haha then ill have to do a 4l80 swap, beef up rear end, etc. Haha. Once you're crankin out that much HP, you gotta beef up the whole frickin truck!

 

Haha thanks, but im sure you'd spank my truck any day of the weak with the boost you're putting out, low compression or not! Once that turbo lag gets drowned out by boost, you're gone!

I have hptuners. I would be more than happy to help you do some logs and swap some tunes with zippy. I have done that with him many times. Did you run the wideband logging output wires out some where? I ran mine out the back of my center console. then I put a 2 wire weather pack plug on it so it is a quick disconnect when I plug it in and out for logging.

There really isn't much lag from my turbo. I guess about half a second. about half a truck lenth. then it just smokes the tires. We need to get together. You and a few otheres from fairbanks. I am currently not mobile, I broke my ankle but I should be healed up in a few weeks.

-Justin

[MID12sSSS]

Jeeze dude! Sorry to hear that. yeah i have my wideband wires up the back of the dash and plugged into the HP tuners wideband plug with the digital screen (looks like a taxi meter) haha. Ill take it off and get a wideband gauge once its tuned to clean up the dash a bit. Yeah. We'll have to get together for sure. I was talking to Nick Davis and he was telling me about when he built your exhaust. He said your truck is a beast. If you arent experiencing any lag, why do you wish you went with a higher CR? To pick up a couple extra HP?

I have big plans for my truck this summer, and i think itd be fun to do some cruisin together with the SS guys and bullshit about our trucks. My co-worker, Bob Revermen, is doing some front end work on a red SS this weekend. Guess its some chick named Kirsten or somethin? Ive seen the truck around, but havent met her or seen her on the forum. Im sure ill meet her this weekend. I plan on dropping in the motor this weekend so im sure we'll have plenty to talk about when she sees my truck. Haha. Ill take a pic. Two SSS's side by side in a Ford dealership.

But yeah. Im sure i wont have any issues with a .028" top ring gap. It just seems a little wider than the other builds i see on the internet, but like i said, that just means i can throw NOS at it. Haha.

[BlueAKSSS]

No to hijack your thread but.... LOL I'm fixing to build up a 6.0L block that I picked up as well although it has some pretty good damage to one cylinder wall so I need to take it to a machine shop to see what it can be bored to. By the looks of the one cylinder wall it might have to be bored to 4.060 or .065 since I've heard that is the max, the rest of the block is perfect other the one cylinder wall. Any tips on putting together the lower ends of these 6.0Ls?

[MID12sSSS]

I love LS motors. They are extremely straight forward and easy to rebuild. You can pick up something like this and im sure itd help you out a lot. http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/193249460X

I have the same one. Found it at Barnes and Noble. Ive learned a crap load from reading it. Lots of great info, specs, and colored step-by-step photos on how to rebuild an LS motor. It covers everything from tear down, to tuning and break in.

Label EVERYTHING! Every bolt and bracket you remove from the motor, put it in a clean ziplock bag and label it. You never know how long itll be before you put it together. You can forget a lot in 3months. Machine shops take awhile and so does waiting for parts to come in. Itd suck to have a bucket of bolts and no idea where they go. Keep everything clean and organized.

But yeah. Highly recommend the manual thats in the link. Itll show you were to put silicone on the rear cover and oil pan, what measurements to take, what tools you'll need... Its awesome.

If you have any questions during your rebuild, send me a PM. Ive done a couple and may be able to help you out.

 

 

Im looking to get another block myself. I have a whole rotating assembly that i cant seem to sell, so i was going to build a short block and see if that will sell. Haha.

Edited January 16, 2013 by MID12sSSS (see edit history)

[AKSSS]

Jeeze dude! Sorry to hear that. yeah i have my wideband wires up the back of the dash and plugged into the HP tuners wideband plug with the digital screen (looks like a taxi meter) haha. Ill take it off and get a wideband gauge once its tuned to clean up the dash a bit. Yeah. We'll have to get together for sure. I was talking to Nick Davis and he was telling me about when he built your exhaust. He said your truck is a beast. If you arent experiencing any lag, why do you wish you went with a higher CR? To pick up a couple extra HP?

I have big plans for my truck this summer, and i think itd be fun to do some cruisin together with the SS guys and bullshit about our trucks. My co-worker, Bob Revermen, is doing some front end work on a red SS this weekend. Guess its some chick named Kirsten or somethin? Ive seen the truck around, but havent met her or seen her on the forum. Im sure ill meet her this weekend. I plan on dropping in the motor this weekend so im sure we'll have plenty to talk about when she sees my truck. Haha. Ill take a pic. Two SSS's side by side in a Ford dealership.

But yeah. Im sure i wont have any issues with a .028" top ring gap. It just seems a little wider than the other builds i see on the internet, but like i said, that just means i can throw NOS at it. Haha.

 

That's funny. Nick did an awsome job on my 4" exhaust. I wanted a single right side rear exit exaust and I wanted it tucked up on top of everything that it could be. I bought a duramax 4" tailpipe and then I bought like 6-7 diffrent lenth 90 degree bends and he went to town welding it up. My turbo downpipe is 3.5 inch and then goes into the 4" exhaust into a mbrp 4" diesel muffler. Sounds pretty good, except for a little bit of drone at a certain part of throttle.

 

LOL! Bob Rev. Go ask him about Justin's ss....lol my truck spent more time on the lift right next to his stall than in my shop. If he hasn't moved. My brother in law, David worked right beside Bobby. That's too funny. Small world. David and I put my truck together before he died. Man, he was pissed at me for having the machine shop assemble my long block. If we had assembled it maybe I would know the specs a little better. Anchorage drag bike is the ones who assembled it. they have done it twice now. The last time was the winner. I have almost 45k on this motor with boost.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Aksss (see edit history)

[AKSSS]

No to hijack your thread but.... LOL I'm fixing to build up a 6.0L block that I picked up as well although it has some pretty good damage to one cylinder wall so I need to take it to a machine shop to see what it can be bored to. By the looks of the one cylinder wall it might have to be bored to 4.060 or .065 since I've heard that is the max, the rest of the block is perfect other the one cylinder wall. Any tips on putting together the lower ends of these 6.0Ls?

I helped build a block that had one cylinder re-sleeved here in fairbanks Matt. They did a good job. You might look into getting that done.

[MID12sSSS]

That's funny. Nick did an awsome job on my 4" exhaust. I wanted a single right side rear exit exaust and I wanted it tucked up on top of everything that it could be. I bought a duramax 4" tailpipe and then I bought like 6-7 diffrent lenth 90 degree bends and he went to town welding it up. My turbo downpipe is 3.5 inch and then goes into the 4" exhaust into a mbrp 4" diesel muffler. Sounds pretty good, except for a little bit of drone at a certain part of throttle.

 

LOL! Bob Rev. Go ask him about Justin's ss....lol my truck spent more time on the lift right next to his stall than in my shop. If he hasn't moved. My brother in law, David worked right beside Bobby. That's too funny. Small world. David and I put my truck together before he died. Man, he was pissed at me for having the machine shop assemble my long block. If we had assembled it maybe I would know the specs a little better. Anchorage drag bike is the ones who assembled it. they have done it twice now. The last time was the winner. I have almost 45k on this motor with boost.

 

Haha yeah man thats awesome! Sucks your ankle is busted. You could swing by and hang out this saturday when both the SSSs are in the shop. Bob moved across from where his stall used to be. The shop expanded and im his neighbor now. We BS all day. Its slow as hell right now. Ive been here since 7a.m and now its noon. Havent had a job all day. There are plenty of new vehicles outside that need to be winterized, but management is being lazy and hasnt checked them in yet. Haha. Gonna take a LONG lunch.

 

If anyone else droppin in has any opinions on the ring gaps stated above, please share! Thanks.

Edited January 16, 2013 by MID12sSSS (see edit history)

[AKSSS]

Haha yeah man thats awesome! Sucks your ankle is busted. You could swing by and hang out this saturday when both the SSSs are in the shop. Bob moved across from where his stall used to be. The shop expanded and im his neighbor now. We BS all day. Its slow as hell right now. Ive been here since 7a.m and now its noon. Havent had a job all day. There are plenty of new vehicles outside that need to be winterized, but management is being lazy and hasnt checked them in yet. Haha.

Same old Bs at seekins! lol

I'm not even cleared to drive. I broke my right ankle. They pulled my license. Sucks. i drive more with my left foot in the pete so I really didn't see a problem with it. but oh well.

[BlueAKSSS]

Hey Justin, I was under the impression that the iron block LS engines couldn't be resleeved from what I had read, I thought it was only the aluminum block LS engines that could be resleeved I could be totally wrong though. Also Brandon, I've done quite a bit with these LS engines just never torn into the bottom end, but from how the rest of the engine is designed I'm sure it is very straight forward. Like you said they are very easy. I think I am going to try and pull out all the old internals tonight if I get a chance. I've seen that book before but never thought about getting it, guess I'll pick it up just for reference. Who knows though this block might be trashed due to the cylinder wall but I'm no machinist so we'll see...

Edited January 16, 2013 by Matt* (see edit history)

[AKSSS]

Hey Justin, I was under the impression that the iron block LS engines couldn't be resleeved from what I had read, I thought it was only the aluminum block LS engines that could be resleeved I could be totally wrong though. Also Brandon, I've done quite a bit with these LS engines just never torn into the bottom end, but from how the rest of the engine is designed I'm sure it is very straight forward. Like you said they are very easy. I think I am going to try and pull out all the old internals tonight if I get a chance. I've seen that book before but never thought about getting it, guess I'll pick it up just for reference. Who knows though this block might be trashed due to the cylinder wall but I'm no machinist so we'll see...

I was refering to Danny Riddles truck. He had this 6.0 in his 03 sss resleeved after he screwed up cylinder number 7, if I remember correctly. I will have to search it out on here. I think that he documented it on here some. riddler(something like that) is what he went by on here. they still have a nickel sleeve in the cast blocks. The first sleeve they put in dropped but they got the second one right. I could be wrong and maybe it was an aluminum block, but I'm pretty sure he did everything to his stock block. let me see if I can find it.