rcapone Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'm not doubting the quality of Chris's converter as my truck makes great power at the top end and it seems to be very efficient up there. I guess it's just my bad luck that the stall is so far off, which might not be so bad if I used the truck for mainly 1/4 mile runs at the track. Anything above 3000 for city driving is just too much, and that's where my truck is driven most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onebadmax Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 It sucks when things don't come together perfectly, but that is modding my friend. But when it finally does come together, you won't be able to beat the smile off your face lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtoyz97 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 The more power you put to them the more they will stall out correct? Just because it stalls at 3000 for example with 400hp doesn't it mean that it will stall at 3000 for 600hp. My understanding is that the more power you make the higher the stall with the convertor staying the same....... But have heard good things about Circle D converters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcapone Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) The more power you put to them the more they will stall out correct? Just because it stalls at 3000 for example with 400hp doesn't it mean that it will stall at 3000 for 600hp. My understanding is that the more power you make the higher the stall with the convertor staying the same....... But have heard good things about Circle D converters. That is correct from my understanding and is why I am so concerned since I'm at 3300 almost totally stock right now and will be adding at least another 200 - 300 hp. I'm guessing that will put me waaay up there. I obviously heard good things about Circle D as well and that is the main reason I went with Chris. However he stated in an earlier post that he only under "estimated" my hp and torque and is why it's stalling so much higher. I would think there are other, more accurate ways to determine a particular stall rather than to simply guess. If you're going to "estimate" in the future, I would suggest spending more time researching our HP/Torque curve as there is no secret here with our trucks - especially in their stock form as mine is. This way others don't have to suffer by pulling out the entire Trans. again for a re-stall. I totally understand what everyone is saying about modding and making adjustments, but if it's one thing that really bothers me is doing something over and over from a mistake that could have easily been prevented by simply getting it right the first time. I'm totally baffled as to why you don't have some sort of database of SSS trucks (I could understand if these are brand new trucks - these are 10+ years old), mods and stall combinations so you don't have to "estimate". Edited March 26, 2014 by L8ERBRO (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coal miner Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Form what I've read your torque output has a lot to do with where it will stall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bfast Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I can't see how after your Maggie the stall speed would increase? That's it flashpoint and won't change unless there's a huge sudden hit over power like spraying out of the hole Think about this comment a little more....you might of just answered your own question It sucks when things don't come together perfectly, but that is modding my friend. But when it finally does come together, you won't be able to beat the smile off your face lol. Bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnss Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Once your truck is up to making the power that it should post up the stall speed of your current converter Shawn. I'm not taking a poke at you at all, but more in interest in what yours is doing because you do have the parts to be in the mid 11's on boost alone in the 12psi range. At that level of torque output I'm interested in where your stall goes to. What are you seeing currently on the footbrake? With my last setup which was a stock 6.0 at 13 lbs with a stock 80 with my Circle D conveter my stall speed on the footbrake was right around 3200rpms. when I order a converter I asked for a 3200-3400. Its right were I was wanting it. I have also had a TCI conveter the was supposed to be 2600-2800 and it blew right past the stall speed. it was more like a 3200-3300 I also have a Hughes 3000 in my V8 S10 and it cant even hold to 2600RPMs before it just wont hold anymore. its starts pushing the truck at 2500 rmps. I have just had good luck with my Circle D. But I'd hope so because I paid double the amount for it over the other brands I have had. I'm not saying the circle D converter Is the only TC to get. i'm just sharing the info I have had with it. Doesn't mean its the best one out there. just means I happy with mine. with time and miles do converters tend to loosen up?? Edited March 26, 2014 by shawnss (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I tried to post on here a while back and the site locked up just as I finished. To go with what Chris from Circle D said is that the LS motors like the extra rpm and he is right. This is why most people don't complain or never notice when they have a converter too loose. They run them and enjoy the harder launch from the higher stall and if it still locks and drives ok then who cares. Yank gets by using this theory and has for years. He sells converters that aren't custom to your build. If you buy a Yank 3000 and put it behind an LQ9 with a Radix on it you now have a Yank 3600 or so and still call it a 3000. Alot of people might think I am knocking at Chris when I will say to anyone he makes the effort to make the customer happy. His product though I have ran into an issue with when it comes to trucks many times. Most trucks I have seen with a Circle D have a converter stalling much higher than desired. Does that mean there is a quality issue with his product, no. That simply means he tends to guess wrong with the weight and torque difference in trucks or does it on purpose because hell it makes his product look better when the customer cuts a better 60' time. Precision used to hit the Vigilante about 400rpm shy of what you asked for on a regular basis. This happens in the world of converters since it is a guessing game on what stator needs to be used. Shawn, I'll reply to what you have there. Your Circle D foot brake stalling to 3200 means it also is stalling too high. Stall speed is measured at full torque output. I am guessing you weren't able to brake stall it to full boost and hold it back. If you were getting 3200 and only 2psi or so as an example then at 13psi your stall speed would be around 3800. In the case of your truck it is hard to tell since the power was down. If I recall you went mid 12's with 13psi and a small shot of nitrous which should have been enough for mid to low 11's, not mid 12's. That isn't a shot at your truck it is only stating the capability of what you have built. Your TCI was about on par with their products. They have a good line for the older stuff and are miles off when it comes to the 60/65/70/80/85E converters they do not have a good product. I seriously have not found one person happy with a TCI purchase using an overdrive trans. As for your Hughes converter, now that is on par with normal (and I also do not like their products). An S10 is light enough without much braking power. Since stall speed one again is measured at full torque output a converter that will footbrake to 2500 (likely at around 30-50% throttle I would guess) should flash stall to around 2800-3000 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcapone Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'm attaching a file I made for Chris from Circle D. If you could look at frame 1357 where I'm doing 40mph @ 3155 rpms (100 rpms less than the Converter's brake stalling at) at a log time of 4:40.562. Then look at frame 1361 where I'm only doing 42mph after the downshift into 1st @ 4985 rpms and a log time of 4:41.357 (almost 1 full second and I've only gained 2 mph on the downshift) That truck should be pinning me back in the seat there and it won't even get out of it's own way! It's really glaring when you drive the truck. In fact, when you have "Charts" open in the HPT software, take a tape measure and hold it up to the computer screen, there is a very obvious horizontal flat line that measures 1/8" long at the frames mentioned above. Since I'm logging tran. input/output speed and all the Converter variables, I was hoping you would be able to tell if the Trans. is slipping here, there is some sort of problem with the converter transferring power, or if this is just normal. Thanks! April 20 40roll slip.hpl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 What you are seeing is the converter unlocking first which is where the rpm shoots up to 3100ish rpm and then the next thing you see is the actual downshift. The 4L80E trans full of larger heavier internals and isn't as instant reacting as a smaller 65E. The time between the throttle showing wide open and the downshift occuring is roughly .2 of a second (frame 1357 to frame 1359). Since the day you put this transmission in there you have on an almost daily basis assumed it is slipping or that there is a major problem with the torque converter. The truck is a slug with this trans and the power level you are at and that is what you should have expected. Look at the difference between the GMC Denali with the LQ4 and a 2500 non HD in quarter mile times. The stock C3 or Denali with LQ4 with the 65E was good for around a low 15 in the quarter. A 2500 series truck with the same engine and body configuration is about 1.5-2 seconds slower in the quarter mile. The differential is a bit bigger, but that really isn't the difference. The thing that slows it down is the 80E. If you hate this 80E so much why keep it in there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldofashow Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Get that blower on and start the build you need more power to go thru that 80E to make up for that transmission. The reason you put that 80E in is to handle the power your gonna be making not the power your making now after all is done you'll have the power you want and the transmission that can handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcapone Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I don't hate the 80, it's just taking me some time to get used to it and mainly I want to make sure there's nothing wrong with it or the converter before I strap on the boost. If this is normal for the 80, then so be it...at least now I know there's no problems. Since the weather's been getting nicer, I've been driving the truck a little more and I'm actually liking it better every day. Trust me, I'm chomping at the bit to get this blower ordered. Unfortunately, I had to pay a very large Dental bill out of my blower fund since I don't have dental insurance but I'm hoping to have it ordered and installed by the end of June Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC03SS Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 When you throw the power to it I'm sure you will like the 80 a lot better. Get that puppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcsilveradoss Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I hope you're right bro because the last thing I want to do is pull that trans. out again - especially since we have it running so well now. Personally, I have no experience and am just going off what Zippy and a few others have told me. Since Mike has tuned countless numbers of our trucks and knows the numbers, I have no reason not to believe him. In fact, just before I put my trans. in he asked me what stall I ordered with the converter and I told him 3000. He told me I better hope it stalls around 2400 - 2500 before the blower because all the low end torque will increase the stall quite a bit. AND it was stalling right at 2500 for my first few HPT logs I recorded which was right on the money - the sudden increase to 3300 is what has me worried. If Mike is telling you this, I would believe it. If it was 97% of these other know-it-all jackasses I would take it with a grain of salt. At the end of the day, you are going to have to install the blower and see how it does. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissfans03ss Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I don't hate the 80, it's just taking me some time to get used to it and mainly I want to make sure there's nothing wrong with it or the converter before I strap on the boost. If this is normal for the 80, then so be it...at least now I know there's no problems. Since the weather's been getting nicer, I've been driving the truck a little more and I'm actually liking it better every day. Trust me, I'm chomping at the bit to get this blower ordered. Unfortunately, I had to pay a very large Dental bill out of my blower fund since I don't have dental insurance but I'm hoping to have it ordered and installed by the end of June Me too brother ,me too. Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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