Question on service price...?

[Ron's SS]

Could anyone tell me approx. if this is reasonable? I got quoted for fluid and required gaskets for front differential ($110) rear ($115) transfer case ($40) and tranny ($110)... $375 with tax for all four. The tranny is just unplug and drain at 50K, no filter change till 100K, I think I'll do that myself, but I would rather have warrantied work on the diffs... I extended the warranty to 96K . I appreciate the input cause I have no clue on this one... Thanks

[Bowtie70SS]

The rear diff gasket costs around $10, the fluid for full synthetic and the posi additive shouldn't be over about $40 , on the front there shouldn't be a gasket just a drain and refill, as with the trans. I'm thinking you could do it yourself for around $100 and buy a PCM tune or cold air intake with the balance. Just my 2 cents. Later

 

Dave

[Cadstar]

Last GM dealer I worked at we were charging $85 an hour just for labor. Add fluids and gaskets and that price doesn't surprise me at all. Just one of the many reasons no one touches my truck but me (unless it's under warranty of course).

There is no gasket on the front diff or transfer case that would be changed in normal fluid changes. The rear diff cover is removed because there is no drain plug, plus you get to poke around inside and check the condition of the gears alot better with the cover off.

Front diff doesn't have a cover, you pull the unit out of the truck and take it apart if you need to get at the bearings or gears inside.

The transmission has no drian plug either, you have to drop the pan to get the fuild out. Kind of a messy job at best. I wouldn't pull a trans pan off and not change the filter if it was me, kind of pointless no matter what the scheduled maintainance says. Unless of course you find a real mess in there, then it's rebuild time anyway. ;)

 

Provided your dealership has competent techs, an experienced eye is good thing to have checking your truck.

 

I always recomend that if you don't know how to do it yourself, it's always worth paying a few extra $$$ to get it done by someone who does. Maintainance is the most important part of keeping your truck running smooth. Cool air intake won't help much when you blow a differential.

But that's just my .02

 

[BenKey]

Prices do sound a little steep. Nobody touches my truck but me, unless it's interior related. Doing it yourself would save quite a bit.

 

Rear diff is fairly easy. Just remove bolts and drop cover. Place in a new gasket and top off with fresh fluid. Front is sometimes tricky to refill, due to the many obstructions above the drain hole, but can be done fairly easy. My tranny does have a drainplug, so if they were only going to do a drain and fill, for sure do that one yourself (provided yours has a drainplug). Transfer case is about as easy as the tranny.

 

If unfamiliar with any of this, pick yourself up a Haynes manual. The directions are really good and easy to understand.

[Cadstar]

I stand corrected on the trans drain plug. Crawled under my truck today and sure enough, there is indeed a drain plug! I'm pretty happy but also kind of .

I have been turning wrenches for 20+ years and always complained to anyone who would listen that there should be a damn drain plug in the trans pan of all cars.

It took a while, but at least GM started listening to that complaint. Anyone know if Chrysler and Ford have followed suit? A tad off topic I know, but now I'm curious!

 

[truckin05]

My SS does not have a drain plug.

I don't know why but instead of a drain

plug it has the indention where

one would go.

 

My F-150 does not have a drain plug either!

Wish they did. Glad yours has it, they will come in handy!

 

 

I stand corrected on the trans drain plug. Crawled under my truck today and sure enough, there is indeed a drain plug! I'm pretty happy but also kind of  .

I have been turning wrenches for 20+ years and always complained to anyone who would listen that there should be a damn drain plug in the trans pan of all cars.

It took a while, but at least GM started listening to that complaint. Anyone know if Chrysler and Ford have followed suit? A tad off topic I know, but now I'm curious!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[BenKey]

They sell them for about $10. So, when you take the pan off next time, install it.

[Ron's SS]

Hey everyone, thank you for the input. The truck is new to me still, but I don't mind learning as I go. Is the Hayne's manual good enough for this kind of service (ie: does it provide pics or anything) The tranny is easy, is the front diff the same (just a drain plug), how about the transfer case? My only other problem is I will need torque specs for the rear diff cause I am famous for stripping/ breaking bolts... bad habit of overtightening.

 

Any additional help would be greatly appreciated, this service is going to restrict me from getting the PCM right now if I have to pay $375, and I am real anxious to get the PCM... thanks again

 

Ron

[misterp]

Sounds like THE HAND needs to post more HOW TO's

 

MY GAWD $400 to R&R fluids is OUTRAGEOUS. You can do the engine/trans/AWD/diffs yourself for one-third that price and 1 hour of time.

 

Transfer case is SUPER simple - at the rear you will locate two large shiny plugs, the casing is actually marked 'fill' and 'drain'. Use 2 quarts GM AutoTrack II fluid (buy at GM dealer parts counter $8@); you'll need either a diff fluid pump or pour tube to refill, just like a differential. You MUST use the OEM drain plugs because the housing is magnesium (not aluminum) and foreign hardware will corrode/errode the casing away.

 

Tightening down gaskets - yes you do not want to be a gorilla with gasketed parts. My personal technique (with cork, rubber, or fiber gaskets) is to use *just* enough clamping pressure to effect a seal and no more. That cover is not providing any structural support at all (relatively speaking) so just run the bolts down to where they make contact and then put another 1/4 to 1/2 turn and call the job done. Then clean the outside surface with a rag and a dab of paint thinner so you can easily spot a dribble in the future. And even if it does 'weep' a little fluid over a day or two it is not enough to matter, just snug the plug/cover down a hair more and that will get it, if not then the gasket is/was defective. It might feel at the moment like it is too loose to you but give it a try, I assure you that it will be leak free. Same on diff and transfer case fill plugs.

 

Also, by taking care of your gaskets (do not overtorque and do not overheat) they will last the life of the vehicle, that way you will not need to buy rear diff or tranny pan gaskets when you change fluids; you just loosen all the cover bolts a couple turns and *gently* pry the bottom of the cover loose just enough to let it drain. I've done this on every vehicle I've ever owned and never had to replace a diff gasket; I've only had to replace tranny pan gaskets that had become brittle (overheated). I've got Fel-Pro cork/rubber valve cover gaskets on my old Pontiac that are 10 years old, *still* leak free, and easily pop-off with the covers for valvetrain arm inspection.

 

I'll post a how-to when I R&R the fluid in my axles.

 

Mr. P.

[Ron's SS]

Mister P: I appreciate the input on this subject. I am a little "green" when it comes to changing the diff fluids and transfer case. The tranny has a plug, so that is simple and the rear diff sounds rather easy also. The front one and the transfer case are my only concern. I need a "diff fluid pump" or "pour tube", could ya tell me where to find this, Autozone or something? Sorry for the ignorance, but I am learning as I go.

 

I'll do some searching on the different fluids and quantities, I got the info for the transfer case now, thanks. I know the dealer said the diffs are synthetic and the tranny is standard dexron III I believe. Any advise on a synthetic for the tranny or just stick with what GM says? Thanks again.

 

Ron

[BenKey]

Front diff and transfer case, both have drain and fill plugs. Transfer case fill plug is fairly easy to get to with a small section of clear hose that will attach to the spout of a funnel. Same principle for the front diff, except to get a hose long enough where someone can add fluid from the engine bay - would require two people, obviously.

 

We were all "green" at one time, but it's the simple things like these that give us confidence to try the next thing on our own. I would have never thought myself capable of doing a cam, pulling a motor, or transmission, but have done all three on this truck and had never even attempted either before.

[SuperDave]

I know this is drifting a little off the subject, but has anyone put Mobil 1 Syn. Trans Fluid (Dexron 3) in the transmission yet? I was about to buy a couple of cases, and the dude at Auto Zone told me not to do it.

 

Also, why does the rearend have synthetic fluid, but not the trans or front diff and transfer case?

 

Is it just a cost issue or is there supposed to be some lame ass mechanical excuse??

 

just wondering!

[misterp]

I know this is drifting a little off the subject, but has anyone put Mobil 1 Syn. Trans Fluid (Dexron 3) in the transmission yet? I was about to buy a couple of cases, and the dude at Auto Zone told me not to do it.

 

Also, why does the rearend have synthetic fluid, but not the trans or front diff and transfer case?

 

Is it just a cost issue or is there supposed to be some lame ass mechanical excuse??

 

just wondering! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The rear end has synthetic fluid because it needs it! The rear end is limited slip, and the transfer case is also limited slip (viscous coupling) and the friction demands are intense so you need the best wearing fluid you can afford in them (synthetic gear lube). The factory saves money on the front diff because it is not limited slip, it's open so all you need there is a decent hypoid gear lube (synthetic is optional).

 

Your choice of ATF will be dictated mostly by your converter. Planetary gearsets are very efficient at transferring power, the bulk of the ATF heat comes from torque converter (mostly) and hydraulic pumping; but even with all that slippage ATF does not get the absolute hammering that engine oil does so it lasts far longer. Also, when you factor in a tight (stock) converter the tranny temps just don't get very hot (the stock SS converter never got above 140-degrees for me). Another extreme example, building demolition derby cars we used 75-ft of 3/8-inch copper tubing in a 5-gal bucket of ice water to cool our trannies - these engines ran without water for 30-45 minutes at a time, and at the end of the derby most of the ice was still in the bucket, very little had melted and the lines to/from the tranny were warm but you could still hold them in your bare hand (the engine OTOH was another story ). Point being, stock converters just don't get that hot and the Dexron III is plenty adequate. But if you are running a high stall converter then you will benefit from using a synthetic ATF, it may not lower the fluid temperature very much but it will last longer given the abuse. You do have to flush/refil the entire tranny AND converter though to get the benefit, and I have been told the shift is not as hard on synthetic ATF but I do not know that from personal experience...

 

Mr. P.

[BenKey]

I would run ATF in the tranny if it were stock. That's what I use in my other two vehicles. It will lower the heat of the tranny fluid.

 

If you look at what most people that build high-end strength trannys recommend, you'll see that they don't want you to run synthetic. Cluthes slipping causes heat also and the syn ATF makes it occur more. Running standard ATF is what they recommend. I run a super-shift race fluid like stuff that makes the clutches grip better and cause less heat.

 

Also, for every 20 degrees you lower your tranny temps, you double the life of the parts.

[SuperDave]

Yeah Ben, that's exactly my point with the Mobil 1 Syn ATF. They claim cooler temps, better lubricity, and longer service life. My trans is stock, and my engine is stock. I'm just wanting to do the best thing that I can for it, and thought running the mobil 1 in it would be better than stock.

 

Are there any cons to running the blue ATF fluid? Like shorter parts life, increased change intervals etc...?

 

My reasons for all the questions is I've been long defending the use of synthetic fluids (oil, trans, shock oil, etc...) in motorcycles. Dealerships have stubbornly insisted that the use of even the highest quality syn. oil will cause more harm than good. Like more leaks....?? Increase parts wear...?? Increased operating expense. That's the only one they won in my books. because even though I run syn oils, I still change them on the old fossil oil maintainence schedule.

More leaks is ludicriss. If the parts are assembled correctly, and proper sealents used, no oil molecules are going to leak past the seals just because they are synthetic.

 

In the end, I proved this to my bike service manager with an engine showing virtually no wear after a partial teardown. His peers told me he was just trying to push the factory fill oils and lubes for the financial benefit of the dealership.

 

That's probably the whole truth in a nutshell right there. It's always about the bucks!

 

To close, I'll say this, when my trucks odometer reads than less 9000 miles and is two years old this month, I don't think wearing it out is an issue with me. But I'll still have it in 15 years, and I'll bet it's still running on the stock engine, transmission, and drive train. And I believe synthetic lubricants will help me get it there!