hot rod truck Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 The following was written by someone unknown to me. >> Whoever forwarded it, cut >> out the sender's (author's?) name -- unfortunate for >> not getting credit for >> the insights. I think you'll agree, after reading >> it, the author could -- maybe >> should -- be a major contributor to our Foreign >> Policy thinking >> >> >> Please read it. You may not agree with the >> conclusions drawn, but the premise >> is too real. >> >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go >> through it. Our country is >> now facing the most serious threat to its existence, >> as we know it, that we have >> faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes >> WWII! ). >> >> >> The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the >> fact that there are very >> few of us who think we can possibly lose this war >> and even fewer who realize >> what losing really means. >> >> >> First, let's examine a few basics: >> >> >> 1. When did the threat to us start? >> >> >> Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as >> far as the United States is >> concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, >> with the following >> attacks on us: >> Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; >> Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983; >> Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; >> Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; >> Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Kh! obar Towers Military >> complex 1996; >> Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998; >> Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998; >> Pentagon 2001. >> >> >> (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there >> were 7,581 terrorist >> attacks worldwide). >> >> >> 2. Why were we attacked? >> >> >> Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. >> The attacks happened >> during the administrations of Presidents Carter, >> Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush >> 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or >> Democrats as there were no >> provocation's by any of the presidents or their >> immediate predecessors, Presidents >> Ford or Carter. >> >> >> 3. Who were the attackers? >> >> >> In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out >> by Muslims. >> >> >> 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25% >> >> >> 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? >> >> >> Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is >> no doubt that the >> predominately Christian population of Germany was >> peaceful, but under the >> dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also >> Christian), that made no difference. You >> either went along with the administration or you >> were eliminated. There were 5 >> to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for >> political reasons (including >> 7,000 Polish priests). (see <A >> > HREF="http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm">http://www.nazis.testimo ny.co.uk/7-a.htm). >> >> >> >> Thus, almost the same number of Christians were >> killed by the Nazis, as the 6 >> million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and >> we seldom heard of >> anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although >> Hitler kept the world focused on >> the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone >> who got in his way of >> exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - >> German, Christian or any >> others. >> >> >> Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the >> world on the US, but kill all >> in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, >> French or anyone else. The >> point here ! is that just like the peaceful Germans >> were of no protection to >> anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful >> Muslims there may be, they are >> no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim >> leaders and what they are >> fanatically bent on doing -- by their own >> pronouncements -- killing all of us >> "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What >> would you do if the choice was >> shut up or die? >> >> >> 6. So who are we at war with? >> >> >> There is no way we can honestly respond that it is >> anyone other than the >> Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct >> and avoid verbalizing this >> conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win >> if you don't clearly >> recognize and articulate who you are fighting. >> >> >> So with that background, now to the two major >> questions: >> >> >> 1. Can we lose this war? >> >> >> 2. What does losing really mean? >> >> >> If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two >> pivotal questions. >> >> >> We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as >> it may sound, the major >> reason we can lose is that! so many of us simply do >> not fathom the answer to >> the second question - What does losing mean? >> >> >> It would appear that a great many of us think that >> losing the war means >> hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and >> going on about our business, like >> post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one >> can get. What losing really >> means is: >> >> >> We would no longer be the premier country in the >> world. The attacks will not >> subside, but rather will steadily increase. >> Remember, they want us dead, not >> just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they >> would not have produced an >> increasing series of attacks against us, over the >> past 18 years. The plan was >> clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were >> neutered and submissive to >> them. >> >> >> We would of course have minimal future support from >> other nations, for fear >> of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, >> we are impotent and cannot >> help them. >> >> >> They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one >> at a time. It will be >> increasingly easier for them. They already hold >> Spain hostage. It doesn't matter >> whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw >> its troops from Iraq. >> Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed >> their train and told them to >> withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain >> to do will be done. Spain is >> finished. >> >> >> The next will probably be France. Our one hope on >> France is that they might >> see the light and realize that if we don't win, they >> are finished too, in that >> they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. >> However, it may already be >> too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim >> and fading fast! >> >> >> If we lose the war, our production, income, exports >> and way of life will all >> vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade >> or deal with us, if they >> were threatened by the Muslims. >> >> >> If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? >> >> >> >> The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, >> and therefore are >> completely committed to winning, at any cost. We >> better know! it too and be likewise >> committed to winning at any cost. >> >> >> Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of >> losing? Simple. Until we >> recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and >> really put 100% of our >> thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going >> to take that 100% effort to >> win. >> >> >> So, how can we lose the war? >> >> >> Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by >> "imploding." That is, >> defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the >> enemy and their purpose, and >> really digging in and lending full support to the >> war effort. If we are united, >> there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to >> be divided, there is no way >> that we can win! >> >> >> Let me give you a few examples of how we simply >> don't comprehend the life and >> death seriousness of this situation. >> >> >> President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of >> Transportation. >> >> >> Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed >> by Muslim men between 17 >> and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to >> allow profiling. Does that >> sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This >> is war! For the duration, >> we are going to have to give up some of the civil >> rights we have become >> accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose >> some of our civil rights temporarily >> or we will most certainly lose all of them >> permanently. >> >> >> And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave >> up plenty of civil >> rights during WWII, and immediately restored them >> after the victory and in fact >> added many more since then. >> >> >> Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton >> before him? >> >> >> No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain >> all of our Political >> Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this >> conflict and have a clean, >> lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to >> war. Get them out of your >> head. >> >> >> Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war >> and/or the Administration >> that it almost seems they would literally like to >> see us lose. I hasten to >> add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is >> because they just don't >> recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that >> conduct gives the impression to >> the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It >> concerns our friends, and it >> does great damage to our cause. >> >> >> Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the >> politicians and media >> regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, >> perhaps exemplifies best what I am >> saying. >> >> >> We have recently had an issue, involving the >> treatment of a few Muslim >> prisoners of war, by a small group of our military >> police. >> >> >> These are the type prisoners who just a few months >> ago were throwing their >> own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, >> cutting out their tongues and >> otherwise murdering their own people just for >> disagreeing with Saddam >> Hussein. >> >> >> And just a few years ago these same type prisoners >> chemically killed 400,000 >> of their own people for the same reason. They are >> also the same type enemy >> fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and >> dragging their charred corpses >> through the streets of Iraq. >> >> >> And still more recently, the same type enemy that >> was and is providing videos >> to all news sources internationally, of the >> beheading of American prisoners >> they held. >> >> >> Compare this with some of our press and politicians, >> who for several days >> have thought and talked about nothing else but the >> "humiliating" of some Muslim >> prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their >> charred corpses through the >> streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them. >> >> >> >> Can this be for real? >> >> >> The politicians and pundits have even talked of >> impeachment of the Secretary >> of Defense. >> >> >> If this doesn't show the complete lack of >> comprehension and understanding of >> the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the >> life and death struggle we >> are in and the disastrous results of losing this >> war, nothing can. >> >> >> To bring our country to a virtual political >> standstill over this prisoner >> issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as >> Rome! burned -- totally >> oblivious to what is going on in the real world. >> >> >> Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this >> internal strife. >> >> >> Again I say, this does not mean that some of our >> politicians or media people >> are disloyal. It simply means that they are >> absolutely oblivious to the >> magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which >> the Muslim terrorists have been >> pushing us, for many years. >> >> >> Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to >> kill all infidels! That >> translates into all non-Muslims -- not just in the >> United States, but throughout >> the world. >> >> >> We are the last bastion of defense. >> >> >> We have been criticized for many years as being >> 'arrogant.' That charge is >> valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in >> that we believe that we are so >> good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts >> and minds of all those >> who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind >> our back, we can defeat >> anything bad in the world! >> >> >> We can't! >> >> >> If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it >> will not survive, and no >> other free country in the World will survive if we >> are defeated. >> >> >> And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout >> the world that allow >> freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of >> religion, freedom of the press, >> equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal >> status or any status for >> women, or that have been productive in one single >> way that contributes to the >> good of the world. >> >> >> This has been a long way of saying that we must be >> united on this war or we >> will be equated in the history books to the >> self-inflicted fall of the Roman >> Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow >> history books to be written >> or read >> >> >> If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye >> on how the Muslims take >> over France in the next 5 years or less. They will >> continue to increase the >> Muslim population of France and continue to encroach >> little by little, on the >> established French traditions. The French will be >> fighting among themselves, >> over what should or should not be done, which will >> continue to weaken them and >> keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that >> sound eerily familiar? >> >> >> Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away >> from them by some external >> military force. Instead, they give their freedoms >> away, politically correct >> piece by politically correct piece. >> >> >> And they are giving those freedoms away to those who >> have shown, worldwide, >> that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you >> or even to themselves, >> once they are in power. >> >> >> They have universally shown that when they have >> taken over, they then start >> brutally killing each other over who will be the few >> who control the masses. >> Will we ever stop hearing from the politically >> correct, about the "peaceful >> Muslims"? >> >> >> I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said >> above. If we are united, >> there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after >> the election, the factions >> in our country will begin to focus on the critical >> situation we are in, and >> will unite to save our country. It is your future we >> are talking about! Do >> whatever you can to preserve it. >> >> >> After reading the above, we all must do this not >> only for ourselves, but our >> children, our grandchildren, our country and the >> world. >> >> >> Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or >> liberal and that includes the >> Politicians and media of our country and the free >> world! >> >> >> Please forward this to any you feel may want, or >> NEED to read it. Our >> "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. >> >> >> There are those that find fault with our country, >> but it is obvious to anyone >> who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE! >> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2W402 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 I could write pages on how I feel about this topic, but truthfully I suspect may of you could care less how I feel and what my views are. So I'll save you the BS. I read stuff like this and it only pisses me off even more. So far I have heard 4 reasons for our invasion in Iraq...and it seems like they keep coming. This guy only added another possible reason; to overthrow Muslim terrorism. I do agree with one part...In order for us as a Nation to survive not only from this war but in general we do need Unity. We do need to pull together. No more Democrat/ Republican bull shit. No more he said she said childish bull. I guess we could sum all this up by saying religion breed terrorism. Think like I think, live how I live or you will be persecuted. Soultion: End Religion, end terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBSS Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tawss04 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 I agree with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 It all boils down to the fact that we have become soft. We are a instant gratification society, and we will comfort and gratify anybody who has the slightest problem; be it the gays, muslims, treehuggers...and the list goes on. The terrible thing is that very vocal minority does a good job of dividing us and causing us to doubt our leaders' judgement. Man I'm with VG I could rant on this all nite.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC3 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 So true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Soultion: End Religion, end terrorism. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Man, I've gotta disagree with you here. How many Hindu's do you see blowing up Buses or crowded Cafes? How many Buddhists take over planes to intentionally crash them? Religion is not the cause of the problem. Extremism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2W402 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Man, I've gotta disagree with you here. How many Hindu's do you see blowing up Buses or crowded Cafes? How many Buddhists take over planes to intentionally crash them? Religion is not the cause of the problem. Extremism is. I was being sarcastic. By this mans idea he seems the think the problem stems from religion...I too disagree, but if that's his premise this is my solution. Also, every religion surrounds extremism in some way. Not every religion is violent true but every religion stems extreme thought, actions, beliefs. I doubt very highly you can classify Buddhist as a religion. It's a mind set or a life style. It's not a part time religion that you practice every Sunday like others I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Man, I've gotta disagree with you here. How many Hindu's do you see blowing up Buses or crowded Cafes? How many Buddhists take over planes to intentionally crash them? Religion is not the cause of the problem. Extremism is. I was being sarcastic. By this mans idea he seems the think the problem stems from religion...I too disagree, but if that's his premise this is my solution. Also, every religion surrounds extremism in some way. Not every religion is violent true but every religion stems extreme thought, actions, beliefs. I doubt very highly you can classify Buddhist as a religion. It's a mind set or a life style. It's not a part time religion that you practice every Sunday like others I know. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sarcasm, I get sarcasm. Should have read into that, but I'm a bit out of it today after having the truck damaged again. I'd have to disagree and argue that Buddhism is fully a religion, but that is besides the point I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2W402 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 I'd have to disagree and argue that Buddhism is fully a religion, but that is besides the point I was trying to make. A little off the original topic but.... If on that same note you classify Christianity, Judism, and Muslim a religion I'd still have to disagree. To compare Chrisitianty to Buddhism is pretty far out there. Religions like Chrisitianity need money and corrupt power to exsist. Things like Buddhism need nothing other than a belief to exsist. Christians spend an hour a week in church sleeping through mass and think to call themselves "good religious people." Personally if you consider Christianity a religion I would never put Buddhism in to that same catogory...just my opinion. sorry for the spelling! Can we get a damn spell check on here for idiots like me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 I'd have to disagree and argue that Buddhism is fully a religion, but that is besides the point I was trying to make. A little off the original topic but.... If on that same note you classify Christianity, Judism, and Muslim a religion I'd still have to disagree. To compare Chrisitianty to Buddhism is pretty far out there. Religions like Chrisitianity need money and corrupt power to exsist. Things like Buddhism need nothing other than a belief to exsist. Christians spend an hour a week in church sleeping through mass and think to call themselves "good religious people." Personally if you consider Christianity a religion I would never put Buddhism in to that same catogory...just my opinion. sorry for the spelling! Can we get a damn spell check on here for idiots like me? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Disclaimer: I really don't want to make a debate out of this and whore up this thread anymore, so this will be my last post on the topic. First off, if you believe the stereotypes that Christianity is a money grubbing corrupt religion, then I assume you believe that all Muslims are suicide bombing extremists. Where in Fact Christianity at it's root is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God and died for your sins. No where in that root belief do you have any mention of money or power. There are a lot of "common guidelines" laid out in the bible to which most denominations "harmlessly" follow, but there are the few groups that show a bad face to the world and you are attributing those individual demonition rules/guidelines to the belief as a whole, which is not accurate. And as for Buddhism... just because it doesn't require the belief in a specific god doesnt mean it doesnt contain the other things that make up what people generally think of when they think 'religion', such as a set of guidelines for living ones life, certain rituals or practices to follow, etc. I stand by my statement that Buddhism is a full-fledged religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PewterC3 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2W402 Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Disclaimer: I really don't want to make a debate out of this and whore up this thread anymore, so this will be my last post on the topic. First off, if you believe the stereotypes that Christianity is a money grubbing corrupt religion, then I assume you believe that all Muslims are suicide bombing extremists. Where in Fact Christianity at it's root is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God and died for your sins. No where in that root belief do you have any mention of money or power. There are a lot of "common guidelines" laid out in the bible to which most denominations "harmlessly" follow, but there are the few groups that show a bad face to the world and you are attributing those individual demonition rules/guidelines to the belief as a whole, which is not accurate. And as for Buddhism... just because it doesn't require the belief in a specific god doesnt mean it doesnt contain the other things that make up what people generally think of when they think 'religion', such as a set of guidelines for living ones life, certain rituals or practices to follow, etc. I stand by my statement that Buddhism is a full-fledged religion. I totally understand what you are saying and maybe I am just picking on words...but it seems like you're talking to me like I have no idea what Christainity is about. After being involved in the Christian Faith for some 24 years I know all about it's politics and corrupt ends. As you pointed out know where in the Bible is there anything about money or power...that's why it's corrupt. They are not practing what they preach. There is money and power infected in Christianity, that's exactly why it is corrupt. Like you I don't wat to debate religions and why they breed conformity but in my mind placing Christianity on the same level as Buddhism is not right. I know nothing about the Muslim faith or belief so I won't even defend your stance on them being suicidal bombing extremist. I do on the other hand know Christianity! Christianity is a self-glorified stepping stone to masturbation. In other words people are only in it to make themselves feel better! Not nessaraily because it's what they believe. People follow because they believe they will get something in return, in this case it's eternal life in heaven. If there was no reward in the end I promise no one would follow! I understand what you are saying and agree that Buddhism is supposed to be tagged a religion. I just have a hard time placing it on the same level as Christianity. Wow we are totally off topic...I'm done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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