Bowtie70SS Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) Ok guys, some of you have seen my posts about how I paid to have an engine built...what a mistake. I took it back out when my trans went south and tore the engine down. What I found is shocking to say the least. I found a loose O-ring under one of the valve covers...dosen't even belong to the engine. The cam gear was held on with oil pan bolts. The bolts holding the cam retainer plate were ground down oil pan bolts. The lifters were not morels and looked more worn than my 55K mile ones...even the wheels have deep scratches in them. The rod bearings have heavy dirt scratches in them and several are showing copper, now my crank needs turned. Wait it gets better here is a list of the piston clearance for the $650 Mahle pistons which we determined by measuring the piston diameters and subtracting them from the bore diameters which we measured with a dial bore gauge...btw MAHLE SPECIFIES .0025-.003. #1 .0075 #2 .01 #3 .0069 #4 .0076 #5 .0083 #6 .0072 #7 .0071 #8 .0065 Gee I wonder why I had a lot of piston slap????? You'll love this, when I took the shortblock back to the builder he said he did nothing wrong, everything was correct. Hell, even the hone on the cylinders was all dicked up...looked like a piece of metal was stuck in the hone and made some crazy scratches on the bores. I have to get some good pics tomorrow. I am at my wits end, I'm so angry about all of this...and this clown refuses to give me any money back because he thinks he's the god of LS1's. He even told me my pistons were blck because I didn't know how to tune, not because of the oil burning. Well I had a good comeback, I said :I'm not a lazy IFR tweaker like you, I tune the VE tables like you're supposed to" Anyhow I had to rant a little. Dave Edited September 17, 2006 by Bowtie70SS (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwalls54 Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 take pics of everything and get a lawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yeah, answer me this...Are digital pictures admissable as evidence in court? I guess I'll have to get a regular camera and take pics. The sad thing about all of this is that if I didn't know anything about cars or engines then I would be really screwed. I am pretty pissed at me for letting myself get F'd like this. Did I forget to mention that I have a recipt that says...Removed CATS and installed test pipe? I found out that removing the cats is illegal, something like a $10k fine. All I can say is it isn't over yet. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yeah, answer me this...Are digital pictures admissable as evidence in court? I guess I'll have to get a regular camera and take pics. The sad thing about all of this is that if I didn't know anything about cars or engines then I would be really screwed. I am pretty pissed at me for letting myself get F'd like this. Did I forget to mention that I have a recipt that says...Removed CATS and installed test pipe? I found out that removing the cats is illegal, something like a $10k fine. All I can say is it isn't over yet. Dave <{POST_SNAPBACK}> CALM DOWN. Yes that is bad bad bad, and I'd hit that f'cker right in the pocket book. Digital photos are admissible, just have them printed on high-quality stock for presentation. When the photos are combined with new rebuild estimates they will hold as credible. Looks like you're going 40-over. I know you are mad and you have every right to be, but you are still looking at this kinda wrong. Don't let the comment on the cats buffalo you, this is all a CONTRACTUAL MATTER, don't take the guy to court because he screwed-up your engine (a personal reason), you take him to court because he did not hold up his end of the contract (a business/legal reason). This is a critical point here, you made a deal with him - you promised to pay him $$$, and he promised to deliver a engine built to an agreed set of specs (reflected on the invoice). As far as anyone else is concerned you might have just wanted to display the new motor on an engine stand the rest of your life, or race it, or drive it, or throw it off a cliff but no matter what the intended use was going to be does not change the fact that the builder agreed to fulfill his end of the contract whether you have cats on the truck or not. First it's nobody else's business, and second it's just not material to the contractual matter at hand. I would suggest a different kind of intimidation: Go back down there monday, with a copy of the invoice in hand. I would draw him out by offering an apology for loosing your temper and calling him an IFR tweaker, and that all you wish to do is resolve the issue between you. Tell him that you always make good on your promises, and that you expect nothing less than everyone else do the same. When he begins static again (he sounds like the kid of person that will push a bad position) you tell him very calmly again that you made good on your end (you paid him up-front) and that you expect the same from him. If he balks a second time, calmly tell him "you do not understand your position here, I'm not asking you to finish your end of this deal; I'm telling you that I can make you - your job is not done yet" and leave. Because you can. When you appear in front of a judge, the matter is very simple - a contract dispute where you obviously held up your end, and the plaintiff (for whatever reason) did not. He promised you an engine - he still owes you an engine built to the condition reflected on that invoice, he's not done yet. Now that's the tactic I would take. Just my two cents. Get that f'cker, he owes you a motor. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) I wasn't lying when I called him a IFR tweaker...that's how he tunes. I watched him do it to my truck before I got my software. He told me "I can't help it if you don't know how to tune your truck". I was rather calm, and never raised my voice the whole time. I need to make another trip down there, after I see whether the credit card company will do anything for me...already filed a dispute. I did take a witness last time, and I'll take him the next time also. Damn Mr P you give some good advice, I hope I can pull all of this together. I wish some of you guys on here lived closer...it's always nice to have really knowledgable people go back you up when you have troubles like this. Dave Edited September 17, 2006 by Bowtie70SS (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moregrip Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 what shop is this so we can all beware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I would print all your posts, they are time/date stamped. and they are your writings. Add some pics in these posts and then you can just submit them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posi12Bolt Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 dude...that sucks big time... get his A$$! to fix the mess up! ~Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I don't know if I should reveal who it is or not. If anyone in Cincinnati is considering having work done PM me and I'll tell you...I just want to try and get paid back first. You guys will sh*t when I post up some pics. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted September 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Here are some pics...I'm gonna have to take some more because some are kinda blurry. This should give you all some kind of idea what's going on here though. Here's the link to my photo album....engine photos Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Here are some pics...I'm gonna have to take some more because some are kinda blurry. This should give you all some kind of idea what's going on here though. Here's the link to my photo album....engine photos Dave Daaaaaaaaaamn..... Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
04CHASE Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 wow man thats horrible i hope you get this resolved i can imagine going through that kind of headache i get upset over my truck pretty easily and i cant imagine what your going through!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
04sskiller Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Thats strange bearing wear, top side only. Looks like you might have had a little detonation when you were playing with the tune. Look at the rings and see if they are pitted from detonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Thats strange bearing wear, top side only. Looks like you might have had a little detonation when you were playing with the tune. Look at the rings and see if they are pitted from detonation.No, I disagree - detonation manifests itself as bearing wear at the parting lines. Imagine placing a half-bearing on an anvil and striking the face of it with a ball peen hammer, the shell will 'curl' inward, and the ends of the bearing will scrape against the crank, and that is not what happened to this motor. This engine was reassembled dirty, I'd say from the cylinder wall scratches it was contaminated with metal dust; the scratches are *below* the rings, so the break-in oil was carrying whatever ate the motor. So my question is, you did change the oil after the first 30-minutes of cam break-in, right? If so, then all this damage happened in the first 30-minues, unless the original bearings were re-used. What do the mains look like? And were the valve stem seals completely shot or what, those cast pistons are coated with a bunch of gunk. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtie70SS Posted September 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I was on my 3rd oil change in 1500 miles. 1st after 30 minutes, 2nd after 500 miles. The last oil had 1000 miles and was black...on the stocker at 3000 miles the oil was still clear. I have to make some calls today, and get it to a machine shop that is "unbiased" and pay them for a couple of hours labor to mic the bores and pistons. The guy I had measure my bores and pistons is a QC specialist at a Tool and Die company...he has 30 years experience. He brought gaige blocks over and checked the bore gauge and outside mic before we measured everything. I would agree that beyond improper skirt clearances, the engine was assembled with a lot of dirt in it...that and used parts(look at the crank gear). Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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