misterp Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) OK here it is - when the pinion in my front axle deflected & bound the whole drivetrain locked-up solid and snapped the output shaft in the transmission : The output shaft is rated from the factory at 380 ft-lbs. *Fortunately* BManSS recommended that I buy a hardened reaction tube the last time we went through the transmission (this March, sad I know) and the chromoly tube contained the explosion; in fact I was able to drive the truck home with stripped front pinion and broken output shaft. The reaction tube has a bulge in the side (about 1/64") where the shrapnel from breakage galled its way into the steel, so it's shot too. Total parts bill this time - 900 bones. :( And that's just the tranny; I haven't got GM to agree to replace the front axle yet, that could be another $600... Mr. P. Edited August 30, 2007 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rausche Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Well thank god for hardened parts... Just imagine what could have happened if the stock reaction tube was in place... That sucks about the damage... I hope GM owns up to the warranty... At least now you have opportunity to look for a heavier duty solution in the tranny and front axle... Let us know how it works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobradh77 Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Damn Steve i hope your luck turns around with your truck. I t has to be frustrating to have the same thing constantly going out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 No good. Look at it this way, you have a conversation piece for the garage Are you going with a billet output shaft? The price on those things went up big time in the past 2 years. You are looking at close to $600 for the shaft alone now. Thanks for the pictures, it helps out all that are not familiar with what a snapped output shaft looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Damn Steve i hope your luck turns around with your truck. I t has to be frustrating to have the same thing constantly going out. Thanks - I'm actually not so bothered with the fact that it's broken again, it's just that I'm not made of money (as none of us here are) and this crap is adding up fast. No good. Look at it this way, you have a conversation piece for the garage Are you going with a billet output shaft? The price on those things went up big time in the past 2 years. You are looking at close to $600 for the shaft alone now. Thanks for the pictures, it helps out all that are not familiar with what a snapped output shaft looks like. Yeah I think I've got a line on one for a better price than that, but the billet output shaft is the largest part of the repair cost. A shot-peened shaft is $130, but I know that I will be going FI sometime in the future and as I don't have $6000 to do a T56 swap (damnit!) well I guess I'd better get the billet output shaft now. After this there is *nothing* left to do, everything that can be upgraded has. I'm still having one problem that you might know the answer for - the 3-4 clutch pack only has only 2-3 thousand miles on it and already shows signs of burning/slipping; it was not baked but it was definitely on its way out, I'm sure that given a few more months it was going to be blackened; this was the Alto 3-4 clutch pack with kohlene steels btw. All other clutches look fantastic. I'm ordering another Alto Red Eagle 3-4 set, but is there a trick to getting these to live? Do I just need to increase pump pressure? or is there something else??? Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 The stock output shaft on the 65E is hardened already. This is why very few break them even under big power. The only one's I've seen break are on very hard shifting trucks or one's that broke something else. At your power level I wouldn't upgrade. If you hadn't broken the output shaft, it would have likely been something else, possibly transfercase related or even the case of the trans. For the 3-4 clutch set I'd go with the blue plates from Raybestos. I would stop using the Koelene steels though. With enough testing I've found that they just wear the clutches out faster than needed. I now only use them in something that I can't keep 3/4's alive with due to power level. I would pick the stock 65E clutch material over the Alto reds though. I used them when I first started working on transmissions, but never got the results I wanted including a short life span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I'm still having one problem that you might know the answer for - the 3-4 clutch pack only has only 2-3 thousand miles on it and already shows signs of burning/slipping; it was not baked but it was definitely on its way out, I'm sure that given a few more months it was going to be blackened; this was the Alto 3-4 clutch pack with kohlene steels btw. All other clutches look fantastic. I'm ordering another Alto Red Eagle 3-4 set, but is there a trick to getting these to live? Do I just need to increase pump pressure? or is there something else??? Mr. P. I am far from an expert on tranny issues Steve. However, since you have logging / tuning ability I would log the trans input and output shaft speeds along with TCC slip, looking at the shaft speed ratio during the shift and also during cruising. In proper operation the ratio should be a constant while in gear and all slip should be across the converter when unlocked. Keep note as to where your TCC lock-up points are at as well (although you will be able to see this on the logs). Once your TCC is locked and you start dropping RPM's with a constant TPS (like going up a hill) look for slippage across the input / output shafts. If you see the input/output ratio spike then you have slipping that may burn internal parts. If you do detect "slip" during the shift, you may want to look at the shift times and such. The solenoids "shift time" that are responsible for engaging the clutches and bands, during a shift, may be too close meaning that one solenoid engages a hair too early before the other releases causing burning. Once you look at all of this in cruising mode do the same in WOT. This is where I would start. How did your trans fluid and filter look? Mike already chimed in however he is the guy to discuss this with. Again I am a novice with transmission issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakesvho Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 The stock output shaft on the 65E is hardened already. how about the input shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 how about the input shaft Not that I am aware of. If you find one though, please post the info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 The stock output shaft on the 65E is hardened already. This is why very few break them even under big power. The only one's I've seen break are on very hard shifting trucks or one's that broke something else. At your power level I wouldn't upgrade. If you hadn't broken the output shaft, it would have likely been something else, possibly transfercase related or even the case of the trans. For the 3-4 clutch set I'd go with the blue plates from Raybestos. I would stop using the Koelene steels though. With enough testing I've found that they just wear the clutches out faster than needed. I now only use them in something that I can't keep 3/4's alive with due to power level. I would pick the stock 65E clutch material over the Alto reds though. I used them when I first started working on transmissions, but never got the results I wanted including a short life span. Thanks for the advice on the 3-4 clutches, I just got the same advice from an additional trusted source (to not use the Altos) Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Not that I am aware of. If you find one though, please post the info... I use the input shaft and drum from CK Performance; look at it this way, my OUTPUT shaft snapped like a piece of candy and the CK Performance input shaft/drum are still in perfect condition. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 how about the input shaft The stock 65E input shaft is also hardened. Unfortunatly, it's where the shaft is pressed into the drum that breaks. The drum isn't strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambo Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 The stock 65E input shaft is also hardened. Unfortunatly, it's where the shaft is pressed into the drum that breaks. The drum isn't strong enough. Let me rephrase my reply as I misunderstood. I am not aware of any BILLET input shafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_bnoon_SS Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Are there any signs to look/listen for to suspect the front diff pinion bearing going out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBlueSS Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Are there any signs to look/listen for to suspect the front diff pinion bearing going out?Gear whine/whistle. Usually starts at a certain speed and gets worse the faster you go. It way start at hiway speeds, 55-60, and as it worstens the speed gets lower. Noise starts at 50,40,35, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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