Why I'm a Liberal

[TBSS]

Hot off the wire the President has a higher IQ than Senator Kerry...lol what are the liberials going to do.

Yeah, that's why he can't eat without choking or ride a bicycle without falling, he's so brilliant.

[TimB]

No response to Blackhawks post

[MN C5]

(Post your creditentials Naked, it be interesting to see your qualifications as a critic) To a typical intellectual, how much you know is far more important than knowing whom you can trust and count on. This is why Mr. Bush is so infuriating to intellectuals. He makes no pretense that he has all the answers, and he talks like a regular guy--but the team he leads is reshaping the Middle East with a brashness and vision equal to that of his Reaganite predecessors, as well as making major changes in domestic policy.

 

An intellectual commits treason against humanity when he or she propagandizes for ideas which lend themselves to the use of tyrants and terrorists. This my friend is why the UN doesn't work, France, Germany, China & Russia are guilty of treason against humanity IMHO. Exactly why the terrorists would like to see John Kerry elected, he has been using propaganda helpful to the terrorists as part of his bid for the most powerful office in the world.

[MN C5]

SAT Scores

 

We know Bush's scores - 566 Verbal, 640 Math - which adds up to 1206. This is by no means a poor showing - it translates to an IQ of about 125, placing the president in the 95th percentile of the general population. Al Gore's SATs were to my knowledge never released, but he scored 133 and 134 on two IQ tests, which places him at the 99th percentile. John F. Kennedy had an IQ of 119.

 

There is a nasty little slander working its way around - perhaps you've heard it - claiming that George W. Bush is an idiot. However, his excellent performance on standardized exams indicates that he is actually quite intelligent. It's very curious that the Kerry campaign has not released the senator's SAT scores - its entire presentation of the candidate is based on 35-year-old home movie footage, so it cannot make the claim that 40-year-old school documentation is markedly less significant.

 

Release Kerry's scores!

[Dylan06SS]

[TBSS]

(Post your creditentials Naked, it be interesting to see your qualifications as a critic) To a typical intellectual, how much you know is far more important than knowing whom you can trust and count on. This is why Mr. Bush is so infuriating to intellectuals. He makes no pretense that he has all the answers, and he talks like a regular guy--but the team he leads is reshaping the Middle East with a brashness and vision equal to that of his Reaganite predecessors, as well as making major changes in domestic policy.

 

An intellectual commits treason against humanity when he or she propagandizes for ideas which lend themselves to the use of tyrants and terrorists. This my friend is why the UN doesn't work, France, Germany, China & Russia are guilty of treason against humanity IMHO.  Exactly why the terrorists would like to see John Kerry elected, he has been using propaganda helpful to the terrorists as part of his bid for the most powerful office in the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Translating SAT scores into I.Q. points? Where'd you learn that one? Regardless, nothing changes the fact that Bush can't eat or ride a bicycle without adult supervision....

 

Unfortunately, you're wrong about terrorists wanting Kerry elected, it's the exact opposite....Bush has done more in 3 short years to advance the cause of anti-American sentiment (and future terrorism) than bin Laden, etc. could have hoped to achieve in 50 or even 100 years unaided. Al Quaeda achieved more than it could have hoped for in the U.S. attack on Iraq (under the guise of responding to 9/11 or pre-empting future attacks). Four more years of the moron from Texas will clinch it. If you can't see that, and refuse to see why, well, I'm sure I'm wasting my breath on you.

[blackhawk]

(Post your creditentials Naked, it be interesting to see your qualifications as a critic) To a typical intellectual, how much you know is far more important than knowing whom you can trust and count on. This is why Mr. Bush is so infuriating to intellectuals. He makes no pretense that he has all the answers, and he talks like a regular guy--but the team he leads is reshaping the Middle East with a brashness and vision equal to that of his Reaganite predecessors, as well as making major changes in domestic policy.

 

An intellectual commits treason against humanity when he or she propagandizes for ideas which lend themselves to the use of tyrants and terrorists. This my friend is why the UN doesn't work, France, Germany, China & Russia are guilty of treason against humanity IMHO.  Exactly why the terrorists would like to see John Kerry elected, he has been using propaganda helpful to the terrorists as part of his bid for the most powerful office in the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Translating SAT scores into I.Q. points? Where'd you learn that one? Regardless, nothing changes the fact that Bush can't eat or ride a bicycle without adult supervision....

 

Unfortunately, you're wrong about terrorists wanting Kerry elected, it's the exact opposite....Bush has done more in 3 short years to advance the cause of anti-American sentiment (and future terrorism) than bin Laden, etc. could have hoped to achieve in 50 or even 100 years unaided. Al Quaeda achieved more than it could have hoped for in the U.S. attack on Iraq (under the guise of responding to 9/11 or pre-empting future attacks). Four more years of the moron from Texas will clinch it. If you can't see that, and refuse to see why, well, I'm sure I'm wasting my breath on you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Here's a link...

 

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20041027-121030-7792r.htm

""But even within the resistance, not all agree that removing Mr. Bush from office would make a difference.

"The nation of infidels is one, and Bush and Kerry are two faces of the same coin," said Abu Obeida, nom de guerre of a leader of Fallujah's al-Noor Jihadi regiment. "What is taken by force will be returned only by force, and we don't care what the results of the elections are."

Among ordinary Iraqis interested only in a return to peace and stability, there is far less clarity about what the American election might bring. Many, like 35-year-old bank branch manager Sahar Mahmoud, say they are bewildered by media reports about the nuances of polling, swing states and attack ads.

"It's a very big political game, and something that we are very far from," he said. "We are very tired people, and we're just emerging from a big crisis. So we can't imagine what other people are going through."

Zeydoon Mohamad Jassem Najar, a biology student at Baghdad University, simply shakes his head as the U.S. politicians argue over his country's fate.

"It's like everybody is looking out for their own interests and nobody is looking for the Iraqi people's interests," he said. "It's like a game of personal interests between Bush and the other guy."

Mr. Bashar, a professor at Baghdad's Islamic University, said he and many of those who oppose the U.S. presence in Iraq were rooting for Mr. Kerry.

"I think if Kerry wins, he's going to try to get world support and United Nations involvement," he said during an interview at Baghdad's Um al-Qura mosque. "You'll see a different situation in Iraq if the United Nations is involved."

""

 

 

 

Propaganda in political campaigns is pervasive. Everyone and every side puts appropriate spin on their message for best effects. Add a little disinformation, delete selective facts throw in a few good sound bites and photo ops, and voila you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

What's frightened me so far with this year's presidential election is how similar the parties positions sound. Of course there are some minor differences, mostly just spin to sound different. Both sides sound like "me too, only better." The big "issues" so far have been Bush and Kerry's military records from the 60's and 70's, and a battle of who's military record is more flawed. Bush was AWOL from the Air National Guard for a few months and was grounded because he refused a physical to avoid a drug test, cause he was on cocaine. Vs. Kerry was only in Viet Nam for 4 months and got a bunch of trumped up medals. Then he came home and bad mouthed the war.

 

A real anomaly would be a straightforward, honest campaign appeal that addressed some of the real issues of our corrupted federal govt. Some honest statement that might actually admit mistakes and takes responsibility for past errors, while offering intelligent solutions for the future. It's never going to happen of course. Besides, who'd want to listen to that? Most people don't know, don't want to know, and will get mad at you if you make the effort to inform them…

[SuperSport]

I think this gives you a pretty good idea of what people that have been around John Kerry think of him.

 

 

John Kerry's shipmates speak out!

 

Can you read this and tell any of these 18 men they are wrong about John Kerry.

 

T Boat Quotes about John Kerry

 

 

"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're insupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.

 

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief."

 

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

 

 

"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is ! not a po litical issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography.

 

He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs.

 

His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

 

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat

Veterans for Truth

 

 

 

"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, befor! e his ra pid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.

 

Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"

 

-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

 

 

 

"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again.

 

Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."

 

-- Andrew Horne

 

 

"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely! resembl ing the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind.

 

That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."

 

-- Jeffrey Wainscott

 

 

"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

 

It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home ... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

 

-- Robert Elder

 

 

 

"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.

 

Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."

 

-- Joseph Ponder

 

 

"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation ! with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

 

Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities.

 

Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."

 

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

 

 

 

"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations ... of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command.

 

Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians."

 

-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)

 

 

 

"We look at Vietnam ... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a steppingstone to his political ambitions."

 

-- Barnard Wolff

 

 

 

"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid collateral damage.

 

When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had committed unspeakable atrocities."

 

-- David Wallace

 

 

 

"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

 

In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

 

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

 

 

 

"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.

 

Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of

the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened..."

 

-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)

 

 

 

"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every offshore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

 

This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight."

 

-- William Shumadine

 

 

 

"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "

 

-- Richard O'Meara

 

 

 

"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 an! d 1967 o n my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy . if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

 

-- Steven Gardner

 

 

 

"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

 

All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best."

 

-- Robert Brant

 

 

"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle, poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time, in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders, it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord missions.

 

I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."

 

-- James Steffes

[Dylan06SS]

Propaganda in political campaigns is pervasive. Everyone and every side puts appropriate spin on their message for best effects. Add a little disinformation, delete selective facts throw in a few good sound bites and photo ops, and voila you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

What's frightened me so far with this year's presidential election is how similar the parties positions sound. Of course there are some minor differences, mostly just spin to sound different. Both sides sound like "me too, only better." The big "issues" so far have been Bush and Kerry's military records from the 60's and 70's, and a battle of who's military record is more flawed. Bush was AWOL from the Air National Guard for a few months and was grounded because he refused a physical to avoid a drug test, cause he was on cocaine. Vs. Kerry was only in Viet Nam for 4 months and got a bunch of trumped up medals. Then he came home and bad mouthed the war.

 

A real anomaly would be a straightforward, honest campaign appeal that addressed some of the real issues of our corrupted federal govt. Some honest statement that might actually admit mistakes and takes responsibility for past errors, while offering intelligent solutions for the future. It's never going to happen of course. Besides, who'd want to listen to that? Most people don't know, don't want to know, and will get mad at you if you make the effort to inform them…

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

VERY well said.

[blackhawk]

Thanks dylan,

 

I got excited during the Democratic Primary because they had a wide-open field of candidates with various opinions about what's important, and some interesting solutions for problems. Unfortunately, most of that fresh thinking is now gone, with the selection of Kerry. *Rolls eyes*

 

What about World Trade?

How will we create jobs?

What about saving Social Security?

What about the deficit, let alone the national debt? WHAT ABOUT PERSONAL DEBT, and the bloodsucking financial services industry?

What about Middle East peace?

What about the Energy Policy? Oil, coal, electricity, and their common pollution problems. What about alternative fuels and uses, sustainable energy sources...

What about clean air, water?

What about Agriculture issues like Mad Cow, genetically modified seed, and how we handle the food supply, farming subsidies, and rural farmers?

What about education? Education and literacy lifts all boats. Why can't we seem to prioritize this correctly?

What about the Fed, monetary policy, the World Bank, the IMF?

What about properly funding homeland security?

What about jobs, low paying jobs, offshore jobs,

What about encouraging ingenuity and inventiveness in solving our problems with tax incentives?

What about the tax codes, loopholes, unbalance, over taxation, etc. and other regulations.

What about the military-industrial complex?

What about those contractors in Iraq?

What, exactly, is going on in Afghanistan?

What are the plans for Syria, Iran, and North Korea?

What are we going to do about the army being so stretched-thin?

What about all those people in prison for non-violent crimes (mostly drugs from the so-called war-on-drugs).

 

Americans need to standup and voice there concerns, show interest in the future of this nation and how we impact that future in decisions we make today. And what concerns me is i can see mediocrity in people's thought processes, especially when they are exposed to only a few news sources. The major news sources are a part of the political propaganda machine, either actively or passively. The strategy is to dumb-us-down to make the election about who can successfully influence voters by doling out the most dribble…

 

But, as long as these so-called 'News' networks keep dishing out entertaining crud to Americans about Bush and Kerry’s old news from the 60’s-70’s records, Kobe, Michael, Lacy, and Martha’s media hype, instead of programming that informs and educates about the issues I have listed above...

 

People will be brainwashed into thinking that this is news and they are well informed…

 

It’s obviously working…

[blackhawk]

Here is an example of the current media propaganda that is running rampant. This isn't election propaganda persay but given the way the media has been used by the current administration to sway popular opinion, i.e. linking sadam with 911 via repetitive use of the two terms together. I'm wondering if now they are trying to change the use/feeling of the word "militia". Just as the words "liberal" and "conservative" have been sullied to the point of losing all semblance of meaning, I believe the same is being done to the word "militia".

 

A militia used to be a good thing, it was considered by our founding fathers as one of the only means of keeping government in check. I daresay, that meaning is being lost. (Can you say Patriot Act 3)? First in Iraq we were fighting terrorists now, it's militias. The two terms are slowly, but surely being melded together. A constant drumbeat of the term has been on the news lately. I wonder how long it will be before we will start hearing about "militias" here in the states being labeled as terrorists? The groundwork for people to think of them as such is being laid on a daily basis in Iraq…

 

The use of 'militia' had a more positive perception in decades or centuries past. Seems, lately, they are turning the word into 'criminal' or worse 'terrorist'. The extremist neo-meaning of liberal and conservative is a sign of what's to come for 'militia'.

 

Thank God for our Founding Fathers, who had these comments, among other things, to say on the topic of the militia...

The constitutions of most of our states assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of the press." - Thomas Jefferson

 

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." - Thomas Jefferson

 

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust people with arms." - James Madison

 

"The right of the people to keep and bear firearms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." - James Madison

 

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." - George Mason

 

"I ask what is the purpose of the militia? To offset the need of large standing armies, the bane of liberty." - Elbridge Gerry

 

And lastly…my sig below…

[blackhawk]

I think this gives you a pretty good idea of what people that have been around John Kerry think of him.

 

 

John Kerry's shipmates speak out!

 

Can you read this and tell any of these 18 men they are wrong about John Kerry.

"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're insupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.

 

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief."

 

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

 

supersport,

 

What you have just shown is exactly what I have been talking about, the media propaganda to dumb-us-down to keep the candidates away from the real issues…

 

 

 

Anti-Kerry Vets Get Plum Appointments From Bush

By Staff and Wire Reports

Sep 5, 2004, 05:49

Email this article

Printer friendly page

 

Two former Vietnam prisoners of war who appear in ads attacking Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry were appointed by the Bush administration to a panel advising the Department of Veterans Affairs.

 

The former POWs in the ad, Kenneth Cordier and Paul Galanti, serve on the VA's 12-member Former POW Advisory Committee. VA Secretary Anthony Principi appointed Cordier in 2002 and Galanti in 2003.

 

Cordier said the VA panel has nothing to do with the Bush campaign or the anti-Kerry group. "It's totally apolitical, and we meet twice a year to bring to the secretary's attention problems from around the country in VA hospitals," he said.

 

Cordier and Galanti appear in an anti-Kerry ad saying their Vietnamese captors used news of anti-war protests, such as ones Kerry organized, to taunt the prisoners. Cordier also was a member of a Bush campaign veterans' committee but quit earlier this month after that role was revealed.

 

VA spokesman Phil Budahn said Principi did not know about or encourage the veterans' appearance in the anti-Kerry ad. Budahn said federal regulations bar advisory committee members from engaging in political activity while performing their committee duties, but there are no other restrictions on their activities when not working on committee business.

 

Kerry has labeled the group running the ads, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a front for the Bush campaign. Kerry's campaign complained to the Federal Election Commission that the veterans' group was illegally coordinating its attacks with the Bush campaign.

 

More than $100,000 of the group's initial funding came from Houston-area homebuilder Bob J. Perry, a longtime donor to Bush and other Texas Republicans. A Bush campaign lawyer also advised the Swift boat group and was dropped from the campaign staff after his role became public.

 

Bush and his campaign have denied any coordination with Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

 

Cordier said he got involved with the group because of his continuing outrage over anti-Vietnam war activists like Kerry. He said he got in touch with one of its leaders, John O'Neill, who later commanded the same Swift boat Kerry had overseen.

Cordier said he doesn't remember his Vietnamese captors specifically mentioning Kerry but he does remember them playing a tape of an address by anti-war activist Jane Fonda.

 

Cordier and Galanti are longtime friends and prominent former Vietnam POWs with long-standing Republican ties. Cordier said he suggested Galanti contact O'Neill.

Galanti coordinated Arizona Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign in Virginia four years ago and was a member of the same VA advisory panel when Bush's father was president. Cordier gave $2,000 to Texas Republicans in 2000 and 2001.

 

The anti-Kerry group's ads have accused Kerry of lying to get some of the five medals he won as a Swift boat commander in Vietnam.

 

Navy documents and other servicemen who witnessed the incidents contradict the group's claims, and the group has not offered any documentary proof of its claims that Kerry lied about his medals. Kerry himself has given differing accounts of some incidents, however, and his past claim to have been in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 is not substantiated by any documents so far.

 

Navy records also show most of the anti-Kerry group's members were not in Vietnam at the same time as Kerry. The group has not released a membership list but did criticize Kerry in a May letter signed by 238 members.

 

Only 101 names on the letter match names of officers or enlisted men on the rolls of Kerry's units in Vietnam when he was there, from November 1968 through March 1969.

 

Van Odell, an enlisted man in Kerry's unit and a member of the group, said Swift Boat Veterans for Truth never claimed to be exclusively made up of veterans who served with Kerry. Finding such vets is difficult because Kerry was only in Vietnam for about four months, Odell said.

 

"It's hard to be there when he was," Odell said. "He was in and out so fast."

 

Before volunteering for Swift boat duty on Vietnam's rivers, Kerry served about a year on a Navy frigate offshore in the Gulf of Tonkin.

 

At least 30 men on the list, including one who appears in an anti-Kerry ad, served in Kerry's former Swift boat unit a year after Kerry left Vietnam, the records show.

 

Shelton White appears in the group's first ad, which claims it is quoting those who served with Kerry. In the ad, White says "John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam." Navy records show White served in Kerry's former unit, Coastal Division 11, from November 1969 to March 1970 - a full year after Kerry left.

 

Odell said White was referring to Kerry's anti-war activities after Kerry returned to the United States.

[m396 #00-011]

It's obvious that no one here is planning on changing his/her mind.

So do we have to reply with cut/paste mile long quotes from other publications?

 

Oh please, Nov 2nd hurry up, so this crap will stop.......

[m396 #00-011]

sorry

[BenKey]

Nothing like taking the opinion of war vets that served alongside Kerry and minimizing their opinions for merely their involvement with gov't and VA affairs - things they should be involved in, regardless of who is president.

 

I am waiting for the pro-Kerry vet group to speak up for their friend and comrade-in-arms though. There must be a few of them out there that can have the shit quoted out of them and can have their opinions tromped on for supposed political gains as well?