marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I'm looking into getting a set of heads. Gains I'm looking for - Power from idle to 6K. I love low-end and midrange torque. I'm more interested in part throttle passing power and power under the curve than peak numbers. Cam - 210/218 112. Will have .550-.560" at the valve. I don't know what gaskets I'll use. Whatever works best for my application. --------- Now... I know little to nothing about heads. Our stockers have 210cc intake runners, and 71.06cc chambers? I'm looking at these AFR 205's because they really seem to fit what I'm looking for. They come in 66 and 76cc's. Where do I go from here? It's really starting to sound like this is way over my abilities. I know there is a lot more to this than just bolting the things up. Dynamic compression ratio, which gaskets to use, in the hole - out of the hole? setting up quench, etc. etc. On top of the purchase of the heads, what else will I need to spend on? I'd hate to pay a shop to install the things, but it sounds like the old heads need to be off before I can truely evaluate what needs to be done, correct? Thanks, -marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Take a look at the flow maps of the heads and try to match up the cam -- you don't want the cam lifting more than the heads can flow. On the sizing issue, if you known you won't be adding FI, the 66cc will up the compression a little -- may .25 to .5? Not sure on that. The 77cc will drop it a small amount. My best advice is to get heads that flow the right amount for your HP target. I'd talk to the head builder and tell them your goals. Any shop worth its salt can take those goals and explain to why head x will work better than head y. I'd recommend some head studs as an upgrade. If you want to boost it later, go for ARP L19s. They cost about a $100 more, but can take a lot more stress (so you can torque em down that extra 15% and still hold crazy boost). I'm sticking with the stock lifters and rockers, although I am considering a set of stock ratios roller rockers. You might end up needed a different length push rod (I did) and should get some hardened rods if you do. Forget about o-rings... You might look into fancy gaskets, but I am using cometic (stock) gaskets for a little extra thickness. Other than that, I can't think of anything else you'd need... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 FWIW: My current DCR is calculated (with a few guesses) to be around 7.9:1 Not too shabby. Should I stay at 10:1, or look to go a little higher? If I do these heads, they'll (obviously?) be setup for N/A use only. If I go straight to the 66cc heads and .051/4.130 gaskets, it looks like I'll be running 10.5 static, 8.30 dynamic........ 8.30 being at the higher end of the recommended 7.5-8.5 range. Hmm. I still think I need to know other variables before I can say anything is set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbents10 Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 As far as quench goes out motors work pretty good if you get it really tight like .040. Honesstly though you migh want to spend your money somewhere else. Those are great heads don't get me wrong, but so are the stockers. A mild port job can do wonders. Also the AFR heads are ment for someone going a little further, they have a thicker deck (3/4") which is great for 1000+hp motors. I would look into a cam swap and get all your bolt ons straightend out. Also a converter will really help get the old rig going. Allthough if you do some mods then are still not happy and want the ultamate performance then the AFR's have somethin to show. They do produce more torque then the stockers. TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Thanks for the recommendations Erik... Yeah, I was going to do studs... conventional gaskets - nothing fancy. I'll probably stay with the stock lifters, although I MAY replace them to see if I can clear up a slight valvetrain noise I have. Rockers will be VHP 1.89's... Crane duals... VHP pushrods (already have Thunder 7.4's in there). I'm having a hard time finding specs on the stock 6.0 gaskets. Anyone know? I'll probably look to talk to Dez Racing about this... but I'm one of those stubborn types who likes to do everything myself. What I can't do, would only because I can't afford the tool to do something correctly. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Thanks TJ... Short of doing things like an intake (filter kit), rockers, and intake manifold swap.... I'm not sure where else to go with this motor while staying N/A. I've got a 2600 converter waiting to go in. My cam specs are small, but the powerband suits me very well. I feel as though there is a lot of power to be found in the heads and their setup. But maybe not? Here is a link to the heads for those intersted in flow numbers: http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/205cc_mongoose.htm Here are the 225's... http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/225cc_mongoose.htm (you may notice why I'm not interested in them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingshark Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 As far as quench goes out motors work pretty good if you get it really tight like .040. Honesstly though you migh want to spend your money somewhere else. Those are great heads don't get me wrong, but so are the stockers. A mild port job can do wonders. Also the AFR heads are ment for someone going a little further, they have a thicker deck (3/4") which is great for 1000+hp motors. I would look into a cam swap and get all your bolt ons straightend out. Also a converter will really help get the old rig going. Allthough if you do some mods then are still not happy and want the ultamate performance then the AFR's have somethin to show. They do produce more torque then the stockers. TJ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hellbent, what converter are you thinking of?? I've been looking into some tranny upgrades any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Stock 6.0 head flow numbers: http://members.cox.net/jason99ta_2/stock60.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbents10 Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I agree with you as far as the area under the curve these heads have something to offer. I like high compression too. with the AFR's your stuck with too low or a little on the high side which I like BTW. With a good tune you still shouldn't have detonation issues though. Also the combustion chamber has a lot to offer on the AFR's and will probibly not be as prone to pre detonate. I am just looking at the price compared to gain, allthough you get what you pay for and they are great heads. TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Thanks again, TJ... I'll be doing my own wideband tuning, FWIW. I'm pretty much stuck between a Radix, a base STS kit, and a set of heads and valvetrain mods. I've always liked the underdog factor of staying N/A. but F/I is just too cool. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 As far as that goes, Marc, I think you'll be happier with an FI setup. I used to be a tried and true NA guy, but FI is waaaay too much fun Plus I used to hate those GN guys who could do for $700 what used to take me $6000 on my NA motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I'm still trying to work out all the pros and cons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cokedrvrbjw Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I'm still trying to work out all the pros and cons... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your either getting head or not!! what more do you have to concider?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbents10 Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Well radix is buy far the best bolt on for 600 or so flywheel hp. After that you run into a hard to break wall as far as making more power. I would stray away from the STS kit cause it has still yet to be proven as far as performance. Great dyno numbers but not much else (puts on flame suit). I myself belive that the detriot speed kit will be the way top go as far as making more power then your normal radix kit. Allthough expensive at 7k or so you get your money worth just like when you spend the dough on AFR's. TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Marc, I'm going to shoot you a PM about more cubic inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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