BenKey Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Instead of playing around with the different size pulleys and checking for KR/detonation, is there a formula somewhere that based on your CR, you can figure the safe amount of boost to run with your engine? Maybe to just get you in the ballpark? Or, is all this based on X number of engines surviving with X pounds of boost. We have heard from Allen of Nelson performance that a SS is doing well with the 3.0 pulley. How much farther can it go before problems arise? Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 i don't know of any formula, but i know there are engines out there with 11:1 compression running over 20 psi of boost. the biggest problem i'd say is going to be spark knock do to fuel issue's unless a head gasket goes first. judging by what i've seen on gen III engines, i'd say much over 8psi unless you were able to run e85 fuel or something would be too much. i'd say cylinder pressure should be fine up to around 12, but spark knock is going to be more of the problem. that's just from my experience, any other thoughts guys? (or gals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawk Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Would it be a possibility to run the smaller pulleys to create more boost and install a separate fuel cell and run on alcohol? From what I understand alcohol is much easier to tune and is much easier to use with high compression ratios and lot’s of boost? I think running any more than 8lbs of boost this motor is going to be blowing head gaskets often so new heads and low compression pistons would probably solve the problem…*shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 not sure i'd want to lower the compression. it'd make it a dog until boost came on making regular day driving less fun. just more cam to make it rev higher and other improvements are where i'd start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN C5 Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Would it be a possibility to run the smaller pulleys to create more boost and install a separate fuel cell and run on alcohol? From what I understand alcohol is much easier to tune and is much easier to use with high compression ratios and lot’s of boost? I think running any more than 8lbs of boost this motor is going to be blowing head gaskets often so new heads and low compression pistons would probably solve the problem…*shrugs* I'll disagree with you, my feelings are that the LS1 based engine is superior to the 5.4 Modular the Lightning has. The stock lighting is capable of with standing more than 12lbs of boost on a regular basis. The guys running 15plus in a L have the option of sticking a rod out the side of the block. But the Rod lenght ratio is higher for the Ford.. Anyway 10lbs shouldn't be a problem for the motor with a properly programed PCM 2.8 would be the way to go IMHO. That should straighten out the over rich Radix tuning, and the lack of timing incorporated into their program. If only seen 2 Radix truck data logs from WOT runs and the Timing drops to 5 degrees over most of the run and see's less than 0 on the shifts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 according to one of my charts, at 10psi of boost, it's equivalent to 16.8:1 compression worth of cylinder pressure. fortunatly that's just on paper. about the easiest way i can think of to run high boost is with a nitrous system. using the idea's of a few past top speed runner's, a system set up to spray nitrous at the intercooler or in the case of the radix, the heat exchanger in effect to cool the air intake temps. you would then use the fuel side of the system to spray alcahol into the intake which would require some programming of the w.o.t. tables to pull it off. mn brings up a good point with the ford, the rod legnth is what causes problems for the ford under high boost and the overly long stroke doesn't help. fortunatly, the gen III engine doesn't have much issue there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimsoftball Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Zippy, Is this what you had in mind? NITROUS N-TER COOLER CHILLER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 i think that is a form of the idea i was referring to. originally i heard of the idea years ago from a top speed run salt flat car in which lingenfelter built the engine for and came up with the nitrous cooling idea for the intercooler on that. it was a firebird that went like 296 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted November 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Zippy, Is this what you had in mind? NITROUS N-TER COOLER CHILLER A slightly different version: Stylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 yep, that's prett much the idea. it makes quite a power increase as has been proven by ford on the new lightning coming out. no high cylinder pressure's by spraying nitrous into the cylinders, but getting the a.i.t. cooler is worth alot on a supercharged set up and will allow much more boost to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted November 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 yep, that's prett much the idea. it makes quite a power increase as has been proven by ford on the new lightning coming out. no high cylinder pressure's by spraying nitrous into the cylinders, but getting the a.i.t. cooler is worth alot on a supercharged set up and will allow much more boost to be used. I don't care too much for the intercooler one, but the intake one looks kind of interesting. Imagine what both could do for you on a supercharged setup. Something to run only when you took it to the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 on the radix my idea would lean more toward cooling it's coolant temp really cold and using it via a w.o.t. switch as you would a normal n.o.s. system which would only put it in use when you're at wide open/peak boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcairns Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Those are designed for air to air intercoolers, I don't know how well it would work out for our air-water intercoolers. It would take a couple of minutes to cool down the water sufficiently to be a factor. I have noticed that my intercooler temps run about 10 degrees above ambient air temperature when not using boost. With the engine off (running intercooler pump and fans), it takes about 2-3 minutes to bring the coolant down to ambient air temperature. What this tells me is that there is a fair amount of heat being removed from the supercharger even when it is not under boost. Additional cooling would be a plus, but cooling down the intercooler water temps is not going to be as easy as in the air-air intercooler situation. That is one reason the Lightning guys use the "ice box" approach, which runs the coolant through a ice chest like thing full of dry ice. Besides, if you are going to have a nitrous bottle, why not spray into the intake where it can do double duty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted November 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 What about the one system that gets put on the intake tube? There are a few different kinds. On the JLP products, do you think that our little pump could possibly run out of steam getting that fluid back to the bed of the truck if we installed one of these? I like the idea of one being used at the track. But I think I would want some kind of bypass system, so I could shut that part of the system down when not needed. Really worried about that dinky pump though, pumping through at least another 15ft of hose and possibly a bigger, or a second intercooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m396 #00-011 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Has anyone thought of spraying down the intercooler w/ water. Works for the ricers, might help a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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