Fun Guy Posted December 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 I agree. With the issues you are having taking the truck somewhere with a dyno that can tune it on the dyno as well as help you troubleshoot any sensor/mechanical issues you are suffering from would be really beneficial. Well this presents a challenge. I'm not sure how to even find shops that dyno tune, and even if I was, I'm not sure I would be able to determine who (out of those I find) would do a good job. Any suggestions? I am in San Diego but would be willing to drive if that's what it takes to get it done right. FYI, I am going to Magnuson tomorrow and they are going to have a look. I'm not sure if/what they are going to do beyond the canned Superchips tune that came with the Radix, but I guess I'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56chevywagon Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Fun Guy, there is a place here called Pann Auto Performance, they do dyno tuning. I was going to use them seeing that they have a 4 wheel dyno, but of course, it's only fits up to 137 in wb. Here is a map to them... Pann Auto Performance Hope this helps. They quoted me $125 an hour to dyno tune and $100 for a 3 pull dyno test. Don't know if these prices are competative? You could also try The Dyno Shop in Santee. Here is their web site: The Dyno Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN C5 Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Sent you a PM Fun Guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56chevywagon Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Just called The Dyno Shop, they seem to be a little more inexpensive and a little more reputable. I have heard some good things about them from a couple of people.PM me when your going to possibly do this, I'd like to see this done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN C5 Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 FYI, I am going to Magnuson tomorrow and they are going to have a look. Any news ? It snowing here about 6 inches so far perhaps I should move South where you can race year round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSminneapolis Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 FYI, I am going to Magnuson tomorrow and they are going to have a look. Any news ? It snowing here about 6 inches so far perhaps I should move South where you can race year round who says we can race around in the snow...makes it that much more fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Guy Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Well, it's late and I'm tired, but here's a preliminary rundown: 1) Fuel pump was restricting output to 49, causing leaning out and engaging knock/timing retardation at upper RPMs - pump output was adjusted/upped it to 57, helping considerably. 2) For some reason the PCM was referencing a low-octane timing table, knocking the timing down a few MORE degrees - this was reset - possible cause hypothesized by Magnuson: bad gas (???). 3) Highway mileage before blower install; ~16 mpg. Highway mileage since blower install; ~13 mpg. Mileage on the way back to San Diego from Ventura; 17.2 mpg. Well, a few things were dragging down my truck, obviously the gas mileage increase is one clue. I have some other comments and questions, though, and will write more once I have had some sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Guy Posted December 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Okay, guys, here are the results. Went up on Tuesday. Checked out the install, no problem there (the shop that did the install does Radix installs all the time). Went on a nice little drive with the Tech II installed (Magnuson has a convenient little drag strip outside that doubles part time as a commercial thoroughfare ). Heard a ping while at WOT in second, so we went back and had a look at the Tech II data. Looked decent - nothing to write home about, but nothing stuck out or was overtly out of whack. Threw the truck up on the dyno and noticed that my curve shape resembled other blown 5.3L curves, but it was falling underneath the others. At about 4K RPMs, where the other blown 5.3L's continue upward (of course they have a robust database since most of the guys there have blown Chevys or GMCs), my truck leveled off and started moving downward. Something was up. Hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and saw what looked like not enough fuel getting to the motor while at high RPMs. John had a look at the physical adjustment screw and said that it looked like someone had been on the regulator before - usually there is goop on the spline, but not on mine. It was reading 47 so he cranked it up to 57 (I think those were the numbers, though I'm not completely sure). Ran on the dyno again but saw that timing was still getting pulled. Looked at the data and saw that the truck was operating on a low-octane timing table, and appeared to be stuck on it. I was asked about my gas (I only use Shell 91, the best available in California except for race gas), so everyone was perplexed as to how I ended up on the low table. Regardless, we called Superchips, uploaded a proper table, reset it, and ran again. This time we were getting up to about 4800 RPMs before getting shut down. John hypothesized that the extra load the dyno presented was the factor, so we unhooked it from the dyno, hooked up the Tech II again, and had another run on the pavement. No ping, and air flow was 389 grams, up from the 366 grams I was seeing just after install. John says that in his experience there is nearly an 1:1 correspondence between grams of airflow and RWHP, so he said that I am definitely in the ball park for where I should be with a blown 5.3L. About the Magnuson dyno...it's a Mustang dyno, but with 600lbs more load (or something like that) added to produce numbers comparable to Dynojet numbers. I guess the Mustang is 15%-20% more conservative that the Dynojet, and people hate the smaller numbers, so Magnuson modified and calibrated their Mustang dyno to produce Dynojet numbers. The day they did the dyno adjustment they ran a vehicle back and forth between their dyno and a Dynojet until the numbers were within 5 RWHP or so of each other. Most of the 5.3L vehicles there produce 380-420 RWHP on this recalibrated setup. So am I happy? Well, I feel fortunate that Magnuson was willing to have a look at my setup and take some time to troubleshoot the issue. I really wish I would have had one more run on the dyno to see what was going on with the final tune I ended up with. If my truck was behaving badly with the extra dyno load, why didn't the other trucks that were dyno'd on it behave badly also? I though this was weird. I felt like we weren't done, but it was near the end of the day and they had worked about 6 hours on the truck, so I hit the road. They told me that because my truck was completely stock except for the blower, I might be experiencing some restriction at the high end due to my stock exhaust. This week I had a Gibson 3" single pipe, side-swept cat-back installed. I was really trying to avoid this because I hate loud exhausts. I was told that the Gibson side-swept is the quietest out there, and that I would be able to hear it outside the truck, but not inside. This is not the case. I can hear it inside the truck and I am not happy about it. In retrospect, maybe I should have ordered the 6.0 H.O. Escalade EXT cat-back system, which probably wouldn't have been so restrictive, but also not as loud. Not sure what I'm going to do about this yet. An interesting thing I did not get resolution on was my prior dyno results. We suspect that at minimum, the A/F sensor at the dyno shop I ran at before and after install is whacked out (I am not running at 10 A/F like those results say, I am running between 12.1 and 12.4, right where I am supposed to be). Regardless of the air/fuel stuff, even if the dyno was way out of calibration, the difference between the before and after install runs should have been 100-120 RWHP, since I ran on the same dyno 48 hours apart with nearly identical weather conditions. As you all know, the difference was 60 RWHP. What's up with that? It is still very much a mystery. What now? Well, it is clear to me that I am not done. We ran out of time at Magnuson, but I think there is more to do with my truck. With a new tank of 91 octane and a more free-flowing exhaust, I think I need to have a look at things again. I am not convinced there is still not an issue, either with the blower, the install, or perhaps with my stock truck, since I have yet to see my vehicle pull steady up past 6K RPM's. It appears now that my job is to find a dyno shop here in town that can tune my vehicle on the dyno using the proper tools to monitor, measure, and adjust, and find a problem, if one exists. If I have learned anything on this adventure thus far, it is the following: 1) The canned tune that comes with the Radix is a minimum tune, set to the lowest common denominator amongst the vehicles it was meant to encompass. Given this, staying with this 'stock' Radix tune will likely mean that you are leaving a lot on the table. Taking into account all the variables including your specific vehicle's characteristics, the blower's, your gas, where you live in the country, etc. etc., you can almost be guaranteed that there will be room for improvement (i.e. my mileage up to Magnuson was 13 mpg, on the way back home it was 17.4 mpg). 2) I will not be buying a tune by mail, ever. After my excursion I am convinced that there is no substitute for on-the-dyno tuning. There is just no way anyone could know what is happening with my vehicle and how it is behaving without seeing it behave, while it is behaving that way. Accordingly, there is no way to see what effects a change in programming has without seeing the effects a change in programming has. And the only way to do this is on the dyno. In short, knowing what I know now, I see buying a blower as a two-step process: (1) Installing the blower, and (2) Tuning the vehicle after the blower has been installed. For those considering an install, this would be my recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsilveradoSS Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 I agree with that but i am in Ga. and i dont think there is an AWD dyno in this state. I may be wrong but its not likely there is one within a few hundred miles of here. Maybe the guys down in Fla. can chime in and tell me if there is one down that way. Since i will be driving there around xmas. What about it guys, anything down there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 AWD dyno is not the problem, it's one that can accom. the 143" wheelbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 you have a very good point ben. someone at gm, we need a regular cab ss, but just for testing purposes. please ship to: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilveradoSS04 Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hey, Funguy-stinks you had to go through all that trouble after you spent so much money. Anyway, would you still recommend that supercharger to other people? Overall, are you happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Guy Posted December 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hey, Funguy-stinks you had to go through all that trouble after you spent so much money. Anyway, would you still recommend that supercharger to other people? Overall, are you happy? Like I said, even though I had that day up north, I don't think I'm done tweaking. I still have some issues at shift points (may be unrelated to the blower), and that trail-off at 4800 RPMs is still haunting me. It could still be occuring. I have to get back on a dyno to have a look now that I've changed that last thing they said is holding me back: a cat-back exhaust. If I sacrificed my nice quiet cabin for absolutely nothing, I will be pretty upset. I am also wondering about something else...on every other Radix I've seen a sticker that has the serial number on the side of the blower. My serial number is etched into the metal itself. I used to work at a electronics repair facility and when a unit went through depot level repair, we would take off the sticker and either etch a new number into it, or do something else to show that the unit was not new. Does anyone else here have an etched number rather than a sticker? This has me wondering. I think it's up to you what you do. Since you have an SS and might not be able to find a dyno to do a tune, if you decide to get a Radix I would recommend at least (1) finding a stretch of road, and (2) someone with tuning tools to help you dial in your blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Mine has the sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun Guy Posted December 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Mine has the sticker. Thanks Ben, what about you other guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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