99Xtreme Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Hey Bombtech,thats a 13.3 in a modified H-D right.So Chevy throws a blower on a SS,it runs a 13.3 stock,if it was blown,no mods.Thats apparentlly a bad thing???If Chevy thru a blower on the 6.0 it would run around 510 Hp.The stock 5.4 is 260,in a L and a H-D its either 340 or 380.I figured about 45% gain with the blower. So if Chevy thru a blower on a 6.0 it would run a 13.3 stock.God that sucks,think if it was a regular cab.12.6 quarter that beats a stock L,whoops dont want that to happen.Reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Is it really necessary to get into the "if" game. "If's" don't care who the manufacturer is. "If" Chevy put a blower on the SS stock...... well they don't. "If" they did, they would lower the compression ratio and beef up the block and internals, beef up the trans and the running gear, since they consider long term reliability (something the aftermarket doesn't care anything about). "If" they did this, the truck would not make the fore mentioned 510hp because it would not pass the reliability tests (due to the high compression and non forged internals), not to mention EPA tests. "If" they did this, I would imagine it would come in around the high 300's to low 400's in hp (like what the L makes). "If" they did this, then the 1/4 mile time would still be slower because of the AWD and heavier weight. We will then use the "if" they supercharged it as I said, they "could" build it on the RCSB truck. This would beat a stock L since it would be lighter. However, this "if" and "could" or "should" or possibly "may," "might," and "would" only exist in the internet world......... because they "don't." It is always nice to hypothosize on what would, could, should, may happen. However, to use that as a basis of an arguement is odd at best. I could do it too. "If" Ford would put in better rods and raised the boost to 18psi the L would spank Vipers. However, they don't..... and I won't argue about the fact that they "could." The SS is a nice truck with a different purpose than the L. The L is a nice sport truck, the SS is a nice sporty truck. Lets leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotbellyJoe Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 The stock 5.4 is 260,in a L and a H-D its either 340 or 380.I figured about 45% gain with the blower. but the tweaking of the 5.4L for the cobra R ran it up to 385, so the potential of the engine isn't done up... They built it to run torque on regular.... Not Flaming just sayin that discussing the 345hp 6.0L that has been a bit performanced tweaked, is not a far comparison to a stock of stock 8.... Now I realize the cobra R is more adept to comparison to the Z06 and that its obviously alos an exagerated thing. I just think if you gave me $46k to spend on a truck and mod it how every i want, I am a firm believer that $10k (after tax) could get you alot farther than $4k -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombtech Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 99xtream, You say I am modifed and I am, even if slightly(less than $600 worth), wouldn't a supercharged SS be modified (at $4k +)? Another thing you are doing is adding a hp gain to the 345 hp the 6.0 makes stock and forgetting that the engineers used high compression and high tune to get that number. Take that high compression away and power goes down as in the base 6.0. Remember Ford lowered the compresson rato of the 5.4 to 8/1 to make it safer to supercharge and use higher boost. The HD uses a low 6 #s of boost(Lightning uses8 #s), but is engineered to handle 14# safely, I'm sure the low boost is used for reliability as well as a margine for us to play in. The breakdowns you hear about are running boost #s in the 20s without strengthening the bottom end. I know it has been mentioned here that you can change internals to lower compression, but this would bring your base hp number down, but allow you to run higher boost, that is what Ford did, even though they don't use high boost, it lets us do it after the fact. Or I also hear you can retard timing, again reducing base power to gain power with boost. Remember, even though there are gains in supercharging, these are aftermarket companys trying to make a buck and as any other aftermarket product claim, we have to take claims with a grain of salt. On the Factory side, with 1/4 times and stock rwhp dyno numbers in the mid 300s as proof, we can see Ford is under rating their hp numbers. I know the talk is the 6.0 is sronger than the 5.4 but let's compare the right versions. The high hp 5.4 used in the navigators is a 305 hp motor not the base 5.4 found in the trucks, special application just as the higher compression/tuned 6.0 in the caddys and SS are special applications. The base 6.0 (compression ratio at 9/1?)is 40 hp stronger than the 260 hp base 5.4(compression ratio at 9/1), but remember the 5.4s torque is 360 at a low 3200 rpm, what is the base 6.0 torque number 325 or so at a higher rpm? Torque or HP, it's your choice. So we can compare engines and different paths taken by different manufactures all day, but it comes down to who offers what your looking for. As far as comparing stock and supercharged with these two engines, and the different paths of low compression/higher boost and high compression/low boost. Here is what we got: Stock; Ford Harley: low compression, low boost(6#s) supercharged 5.4= 340hp, 425 ft.#s tq. advertised (RWHP dynoed at 320, which means the power is under rated, and is more like 390, Lightnings dyno at 360 RWHP and may really be over 400hp, ford started underrating after the 99 Cobra mistake) Chevy SS: high compression performance tuned 6.0= 345hp, 375 ft.#s tq. advertised (RWHP dynoed by owner at pickup truck.com at 280, so flywheel 345 hp sounds right considering the AWD) Modified, hear we see where compression ratios make a difference; Ford Harley: low compression, High flow filter, Chip, 6 or 8#Pully for moderate boost (12-14#s) supercharged 5.4= 474 to 500 hp ( applications of this can be found at the Lightning forums or Harley forums, my application is in the area of 10-12#s of boost, my times tell of at least 450hp). $600 Chevy SS: high compression, headers, exhaust, timming pulled(chip), low boost(6#s) supercharged= 470 to 500hp from what I have seen on this site. These are what the aftermarket marketing numbers claim, right? If I am wrong, correct me as I am going by memory. $5,000? Highly modified, here the SS owner will take the path Ford took and abandon Chevy's path; Ford Harley: still low compression but strengthened bottom end(rods, crak,pistons), Twin screw style blower(Kenne Bell, $3,000), headers, exhaust, High boost (22-24#s)= 650 to 700 hp $5,000 Chevy SS: Low compression pistons, stronger rods and crank, pully for Higher boost (?)= 700hp? $3,000? All the above work and we end up pretty much in the same place with coparable money spent on mods, not trucks, that is another disscusion. We haven't even talked about the trannys! I know the Harley's tranny is the same as the powerstrokes but I don't know what the SS uses. I guess my point is we can argue numbers all day, but the fact is these are two different paths taken buy the manufacturer. One high compression, high tune, the other factory designed supercharger. Now when you talk about adding a supercharger to the SS, are you not saying that the path Chevy took is not what you want so you reengineer and take the path Ford took? I hear a lot of "Chevy makes the power without supercharging" and then a supercharger is talked about as the savior modification. Ford has taken the non-supercharged path in other applications with 5.4, they even have a killer 5.0 crate engine based in the 4.6. But for the heavy trucks, they needed torque as it is a great way to get a heavy truck moving, supercharging gets you great torque numbers( for the cobra, they did it because the RD was already paid for with the Lightning so it was cheap for them to do). That is the path they took and some of you seem to agree, that's why you are getting superchargers. I wish you guys luck, after the tuning i did to the R/T to work with the mods I didn't want to mess with it, the Harley worked for me. Again, I am not arguing with anyone, just tring to make sence of it all. It comes down to how much you want to spend. But when talking stock, then the facts are clear, modding blures that line. 99extream, when you say I am modified to get a 13.3 and the supercharged ss to 13.3 or 13.8 whatever it ends up being, we have to clarify how modified. My Harley(33k) is slightly modified(13.3) to $600($33,600 total), an SS(40k) is supercharged and modified(13.?) to at least $4500 ($45,500 total). Anyways, this is to long, sorry guys. Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99Xtreme Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Im going to stop disussing this issue.I think we have this discussion once a week lately.Im going to says something that will make the Chevy guys mad.Went to Minniapolis for the World of Wheels car and truck show,turns out my friends new bf has a L.She tells me this and im like will he let me drive it she says probably.Well when he got to the apartment we went outside and looked at it.Red 01 with I think Borla exhaust basiclly stock.Keys in my hand and one big grin,WOW I didnt realize how fast those things are.Im almost thinking of sinning and converting the the F word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Hehe, I think most people who like to hate the Lightning would change their minds if they only drove one. The most grins per mile available today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn_butler Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Look I really don't want to argue. Do you think the Monte Carlo and the current impala are ture SS vehicles? Look less than ten years ago only to American vehicles had more tha 345hp. Viper and ZR-1. The current vette, with the exclution of the Z06 has only 350hp! So please tell me why this is not an SS!!! Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotbellyJoe Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Look I really don't want to argue. Do you think the Monte Carlo and the current impala are ture SS vehicles? Look less than ten years ago only to American vehicles had more tha 345hp.Viper and ZR-1. The current vette, with the exclution of the Z06 has only 350hp! So please tell me why this is not an SS!!! Please! because its not fast enough.... SS is supposed to be the pinacle of speed from the bowtie boys... Though its faster, its not fastest of their stuff, therefore doubt of the nameplate arises.... Its a nice truck don't get me wrong, i just think the look and name seemed to be more important that balls out speed... -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsen Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Look I really don't want to argue. Do you think the Monte Carlo and the current impala are ture SS vehicles? Look less than ten years ago only to American vehicles had more tha 345hp.Viper and ZR-1. The current vette, with the exclution of the Z06 has only 350hp! So please tell me why this is not an SS!!! Please! because its not fast enough.... SS is supposed to be the pinacle of speed from the bowtie boys... Though its faster, its not fastest of their stuff, therefore doubt of the nameplate arises.... Its a nice truck don't get me wrong, i just think the look and name seemed to be more important that balls out speed... -Joe i've gone over this issue alot on his site and frankly i,m sick of it. you argue that it's not the pinacle of speed. so what, it has to be faster than everything chevy makes to be a ss. its the fastest truck the they make so to me it deserves the ss badge. gm is not going to make the ss of today like it used to be so get over it and accept what it is. i love my truck, i did'nt buy it to be the fastest truck on the road, i would have bought a dodge srt if i wanted that, but i did'nt, i bought a damn good looking truck that has about every option an escalade has and is still pretty quick and i would'nt tade it for any ugly ass ford or dodge even if they are quicker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombtech Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 The fastest truck Chevy makes is the regular cab stepside with the 5.3 and a 3.73 rear locker. They run 14.8 to 15.0 stock all night at the drag strips. Even the Lightning guys at nloc.net agree to that, as a mater of fact there is a thread over there about it now. You can also check at fullsizechevy.com for all kinds of examples of stock trucks like that runing low 14s with minor mods. The extra cab chevys with the 5.3s run around 15.4, so you are slightly faster than those. Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsen Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 your probably right about the regular cab being faster, but it's pissing me off to keep reading about this subject, i was just mad when i posted this earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 apparently some people aren't good with numbers. yes, the corvette is the only chevrolet product with more hp than the ss, but the ss silverado is not only awd taking power away from that, but weigh's in more than any other previous ss. pretty simple, 345hp might be special at 3300lbs, or even 4000, but when it's dry weight is over 5200, it'd be like calling the 2500hd an ss also since it's 340hp. it is however the nicest truck they build with the exception of some moron feeling it doesn't need a dvd player, but that doesn't make it an ss. had they just badged a rcsb 2wd 5.3 truck ss i'd have been happier. will the true ss please stand up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwest1975 Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 but when it's dry weight is over 5200 It is officially listed as 5013 lbs. This is what is listed on the SS preview at the chevy web site. Then again....they also list the rims as polished aluminum. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcairns Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Chevy SS: high compression performance tuned 6.0= 345hp, 375 ft.#s tq. advertised (RWHP dynoed by owner at pickup truck.com at 280, so flywheel 345 hp sounds right considering the AWD) I hate to add to this thread, but I am curious, where did you see that thread on the dyno test? I went searching over there and could not find it. I am going to take my truck to an AWD dyno before and after the Whipple supercharger. I came up with 290 rwhp based on weight and my ET, so they are pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotbellyJoe Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Johnson... I'm not trying to piss you off.... I think the trucks are nice, but they didn't need to put an SS logo on it... Save that for a Full-on Balls-out Truck... Stick an RS or something on it... I just fear that the nameplate is getting watered down.. Or hell do what Ford did and find some other Name to stick on it if its only gonna be 2nd fastest... -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.